God, Pledge, WTF

[hismajesty]

I don't believe in a deity. Any deity. That's why. We don't even need to go as far as a religion!

If you did in fact go to school in America, you would have the option of reciting the pledge.

That solves the problem for all of the other people. All public schools in America have a moment of silence, people can pray, or do whatever in this moment, so if somebody would like to recite something other than the pledge they can do it to themselves in this time.

[hismajesty]

the pledge doesn't make a reference to any monotheistic religion

It doesn't matter if it directly relates to any religion — God is a religious matter in itself.

What religion? You all talk about it as if the pledge is pushing the Christian faith upon school children.

[Arta]

If you did in fact go to school in America, you would have the option of reciting the pledge.

That solves the problem for all of the other people. All public schools in America have a moment of silence, people can pray, or do whatever in this moment, so if somebody would like to recite something other than the pledge they can do it to themselves in this time.

Well, that sounds ok, broadly. Doesn't it potentially raise other problems though? I can imagine scenarios where kid A gets bullied for not being patriotic enough because of not reciting the pledge, or somesuch.

[hismajesty]

I haven't seen any thing like that. Some teachers ask that the student stand up with the other students, but not requiring them to recite it or place their hand over their heart. The standing is just out of respect, however others don't mind if they just sit. If other schools are like mine (which I'm sure they are) most kids don't like reciting it, and find it to be a pain. A lot of students at my school don't do it because they're too lazy to stand up. I say it everytime, and I also say it sometimes when they don't do it over the loud speaker. I say it, or at least mouth it, instead of just listening as well.

[Joe[x86]]

This entire thing is just retarded. They already have a national law (or maybe its a state law?) that school staff (nor students, hehe) can force us to say the pledge if we don't want to. We discussed this in social studys and I brought that up (starting with "well thats just stupid"). Aparently its a prayer, and seeing as how (public) school staff are not allowed to force religious topics on students, we aren't allowed to say it anymore, because we are forcing the fact that their is a God upon the other students. In the student handbook (at my school), it says that students may hold religious clubs, groups, etc at school, as long as its student led (and initiated), so basically we're allowed to hold huge events but not say "one nation under God". Makes me want to move to Canada.

[hismajesty]

I'd continue to say it, it's your right. National law supercedes local, and the federal government says you can say it.

[Adron]

It is absolutely your right to read the pledge yourself. What is not is the school or teacher's right to organize reciting the pledge in his/her class.

It's a few words designed to incite patriotism in schoolchildren all over the nation. What's the big deal?

And to this: Well, I do not think it should be a big deal. Just remove the reference to god, let it read as it did in the 30's. Then it will be just a few words of patriotism. Having god in it just messes things up.

[Hitmen]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/14/pledge.ruling.ap/index.html

Thank God!
</pun>

[hismajesty]

Anyway, I'm not concerned about this. I'm pretty sure it will go to the high court and they will say how stupid the judge is (maybe with nicer words.) Yay<3RepublicanCourt.

[CrAz3D]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/14/pledge.ruling.ap/index.html

Thank God!
</pun>

HA!  good stuff

As far as "under God", screw it, take it out.  It didn't used to be there so who cares, let the damn athiests go to hell...then they'll rethink what they did.

[hismajesty]

You're kicked out of the party, CrAz3D!

[Mephisto]

Trust, whether reciting the pledge is optional or not, it is very difficult for school children, where the peldge is namely recited every morning (my experience) to comprehend the concept of God/Relgion.  At this young age they are persuaded into reciting it believing it's a requirement, and because the school/teacher insists on doing so.  Regardless of whether it's optional more over, it is being excercised in a public sanction, therefore violating the first ammendment.

I should also note to everyone that the Supreme Court did not rule on this case, which many people who refuse to do a bit of research proclaim.  They avoided the case due to the potential controversy of the case by justifying rejection by the fact that the plaintiff did not have custody of his child in a public school, therefore had no grounds to bring the case up.  However, that has obviously changed now, and it will be interesting whether this case is brought the the Supreme Court.  It's an interesting era of U.S. History, and what better time to be studying it. 

Here's a bit of education for you all to which formulates into my opinion on the matter.  The phrase "under God" was put into the pledge due to factors of the 1950's where the Cold War was in its peak.  Atheism was becomming a popular term in America with speculation on the Cold War and due to fears regarding Communism becoming a potential influence in America it motivated legislators to add the phrase into the constitution.  The fear of Communism/Atheism was a concern for the Government in maintaining what they interpreted "American Patriotism" and declared that "God -> Christianity" was a symbol of America Patriotism against Communism which they were struggling to promote in their campaign against Communism (Korean War, Vietnam, etc.).

I think it's time that the phrase "under God" be removed from the pledge, for obvious reasons.  It was added for a reason, and that reason has ceased to be relevant to this day.  Moreover, it was as equally unconstitutional back then as it is now, but only now it has no reason for being.  It is simply an exercise of relgion in a public sanction, optional or not, which is clearly stated a violation in the U.S. Constitution; and last time I checked, the term God related to religion, and the reason for the phrase as explained above clearly identifys "God" as the "Christian God."

[shout]

It seems you are argueing off topic. There is a seperation between church and state. The pledge is a state thing, but  it is bringing religion into it. Simple. It does not matter what religion, by using the word "God", it is enforcing the stereotypical Christain American. Even if that is not the point of it, that is what it is doing.

It doesn't matter if it directly relates to any religion — God is a religious matter in itself.

Further more, the Christian religion seems to be pouring out of almost every part of the government. On the money you handle, on every peice, it says "In God we trust". This to me is even more outrageous than the word "God" in the pledge. "God" has no place in the government. In military graveyards, each grave has a cross. The only thing that you can bring to mind when you see a cross is, you guessed it, Christianity!

I sincerly hope that "God" is taken out of the pledge. The whole pledge itself just seems like some sort of weird cult thing to me.

As far as "under God", screw it, take it out. It didn't used to be there so who cares, let the damn athiests go to hell...then they'll rethink what they did.

No comment.

[Topaz]

This reveals a lot of pettiness in most of you, or at least, the devils advocate :x I don't recall anyone ever having a problem with the nation's pledge before that person brought it up. Why the big fuss?

[shout]

This reveals a lot of pettiness in most of you, or at least, the devils advocate :x I don't recall anyone ever having a problem with the nation's pledge before that person brought it up. Why the big fuss?

I have always had a problem with it. Before all this shit happened, when I was like in third grade, I would constantly get in trouble for not saying the pledge.