God, Pledge, WTF

[Arta]

&& btw, not all religions involve a god, so that argument is silly anyway.

[Topaz]

Looks like I picked up bad information, but see what Eisenhower said when approving "Under God":

"In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."

Please tell me how reciting words everyday will affect religious choices.

[Arta]

Reciting words involving God is a religious choice.

[shout]

Again, you people are arguing points indirectly related; the word "God", no matter how skewed your interpretation, directly relates to religion.

[hismajesty]

The true meaning of the clause is unclear

How the heck is unclear? Have you ever actually even read the clause? It's perfectly clear! It says that the Government cannot place one religion over another, or establish a national religion. This clause is the reason they don't allow religious groups to meet in places like schools - because they'd have to allow EVERY religion without discriminating. If the pledge said "One nation, under Jesus" or "One nation, under Allah" or "One nation, under a Christian God" then that would be unconstitutional. Be familar with the Constitution before you claim something to be unconstitutional.

Reciting words involving God is a religious choice.

CHOICE, it's their choice to say the pledge.

----

Shockingly, today, when I did the pledge I looked around the room. Everybody stood up, except for one kid (because he's in a wheelchair.) Also, everybody recited it (or at least put their hand over their heart) except the kid who is from Poland - but this makes sense since he isn't (I don't beleive) a citizen, and his dad (likewise for a few other kids in my school from Poland) are here on a Government contract to do something. I thought that it was great.

[shout]

This post is aimed directly at trust:

What about religions without a God? What about athiests? You are beating around the bush with your arguments. You argue as if you have simply skipped me and Arta's posts, and if you do aknowledge someone, you take their argument out of context. You still have yet to argue the point that God directly implies religion and that religion has no place in public schools.

[hismajesty]

You have provided no evidence for your claims.

There are plenty of Christians (for example) in public schools, why should we be stopped from saying something we beleive in to fit some "politically correct" ideal? Eventually, America is going to kill itself because it won't settle for pissing somebody off over something like this. You people are lucky you don't live in other countries, that's for sure. I do,however, sometimes with that America would have a more take-no-shit policy on this sort of thing. It's totally destroying core American values. Like it or not, when the first Americans got here, God was a HUGE part of it, and it was a HUGE part of the founding of America. People take this whole seperation TOO far and I clearly explained what it means.

[Arta]

CHOICE, it's their choice to say the pledge.

I'm aware of that. I was responding to darktype's post.

[Topaz]

You don't >have to recite the pledge. It's no longer a requirement - also note that I am Topaz.

[hismajesty]

You don't >have to recite the pledge. It's no longer a requirement - also note that I am Topaz.

That has been said multiple times.

[Topaz]

Nobody's getting the point - at THIS point, it's no longer an issue. If you don't want to say it, then you don't need to.

[Soul Taker]

The true meaning of the clause is unclear

How the heck is unclear? Have you ever actually even read the clause? It's perfectly clear! It says that the Government cannot place one religion over another, or establish a national religion. This clause is the reason they don't allow religious groups to meet in places like schools - because they'd have to allow EVERY religion without discriminating. If the pledge said "One nation, under Jesus" or "One nation, under Allah" or "One nation, under a Christian God" then that would be unconstitutional. Be familar with the Constitution before you claim something to be unconstitutional.

Reciting words involving God is a religious choice.

CHOICE, it's their choice to say the pledge.

----

Shockingly, today, when I did the pledge I looked around the room. Everybody stood up, except for one kid (because he's in a wheelchair.) Also, everybody recited it (or at least put their hand over their heart) except the kid who is from Poland - but this makes sense since he isn't (I don't beleive) a citizen, and his dad (likewise for a few other kids in my school from Poland) are here on a Government contract to do something. I thought that it was great.

If you apply the CHOICE argument to your own post, one could say it would be people's CHOICE to attend religious group meetings in schools, and therefore having them is fine.  Once again I shall say, where is the pledge recited over the speaker and with it's own time set aside in schools which does not include pledging your agreement that the country was founded under God?  Unless there is one, I don't see how people can say that this isn't supporting one branch of religon over another.

[hismajesty]

I don't understand your question, could you reword it?

The first part of your argument, about meeting in schools, the governement does this (according to AP Government freshmen year) to just simply avoid conflict. If they allowed say, Jews, to hold a religious meeting in a school, they'd have to allow Satanists, which wouldn't look good, etc.

[Hitmen]

I've always thought it was stupid and unnecessary. At the begining of the year in 8th grade I got a detention for not reciting the pledge. After that I figured out a surefire way to not have to do it anymore. The next day I help my hand up in a nazi salute facing the teacher, which got me sent to the office. After arguing with the principal I never had to stand up or recite some stupid words against my will again. Ever since then I've had teachers that weren't over patriotic asstards and it hasn't been a problem.

[hismajesty]

You're a jerk, and the reason that I have a strong detest towards teenagers. Doing a Nazi salute was trashy and uncalled for.