D0wn with Levi Strauss & C0.!

[Arta]

I disagree. I think it's the same as rejecting someone because they're black or female -- something which, I hope, they would never get away with.

[hismajesty]

I disagree. I think it's the same as rejecting someone because they're black or female -- something which, I hope, they would never get away with.

But rejecting somebody because they're white, or male is OK?

[Forged]

I think you might be putting words in his mouth.

I personally think the boy scouts should be able to do what ever the hell they want, but if they want to act this way they should lose all funding and tax cuts the gov. gives them.

[Arta]

I disagree. I think it's the same as rejecting someone because they're black or female -- something which, I hope, they would never get away with.

But rejecting somebody because they're white, or male is OK?

No, of course not. When did I ever say that?

[hismajesty]

You didn't include either in your post, and you seem to support the Hooters decision.

[CrAz3D]

Some things must be done for the greater good of society, ie raise moral, respectable people. 

LS&co funded BSA, then withdrew funding because we don't accept gay people.  We've never accepted gay people.  We reject/deny gay people because of their beliefs, LS&Co rejected/denied us because of our beliefs.  Is that not the same thing?

Unless LS&Co is full of incompetent people that just hand out money without knowing where it is going, they knew about our stance on gay people as it has never been different to my knowledge.

I'm saying homophobia being viewed as immoral makes it relevant.

I don't think people's opinion has been lowered, I think people join scouting still because they want to have 'physically strong, mentally awake, & morally straight' kids.

[Adron]

LS&co funded BSA, then withdrew funding because we don't accept gay people.  We've never accepted gay people.  We reject/deny gay people because of their beliefs, LS&Co rejected/denied us because of our beliefs.  Is that not the same thing?

You reject gay people because of their beliefs. LS&Co rejects you because of your actions. There's actually a difference. If you believed that gay people were immoral, but didn't actually reject gays...

And in the above paragraph, you need to read "actions" as "actions involving BSA" - you don't have to invite gays into your home or your private parties to keep funding from LS&Co, but in your role in BSA you have to accept them. This said before you bring up gays' actions. We're talking about actions taken where BSA is involved. Not about what gay people do in their homes or with their mates. I wouldn't be opposed to kicking gays that were having gay sex during BSA country trips.

I don't think people's opinion has been lowered, I think people join scouting still because they want to have 'physically strong, mentally awake, & morally straight' kids.

I joined scouting for the physically strong, mentally awake, enjoy outdoors activities part. People's sexual attractions were never involved. Actually, including everyone on equal grounds was an important part. Anti-racism, anti-discrimination.

And I'm sure some people's opinions of BSA have been lowered - why else would LS&co cut funding?

[CrAz3D]

We reject gay people based on how they act sexually (their physical actions & their moral actions).  LS&Co withdrew funding because of our moral actions & physical actions...this is hard to explain.

We believe being gay is wrong.  We don't let gay people into the troop.  LS&Co believes discrimination is wrong.  They dropped our funding.
Both sides have a belief & an action.

I believe they cut funding because they got new corporate leadership that didn't want pointless lawsuits, not because they didn't like how the BSA operated

[Adron]

We reject gay people based on how they act sexually (their physical actions & their moral actions).  LS&Co withdrew funding because of our moral actions & physical actions...this is hard to explain.

It's hard to explain, and particularly, you're likely to find that actions particular to gay people aren't related to scouting and BSA...

[CrAz3D]

We reject gay people based on how they act sexually (their physical actions & their moral actions).  LS&Co withdrew funding because of our moral actions & physical actions...this is hard to explain.

It's hard to explain, and particularly, you're likely to find that actions particular to gay people aren't related to scouting and BSA...

  Actions related to gays aren't related to scouting?

[Arta]

Just change 'gay' and 'homophobic' to 'black' and 'racist' in all your arguments, and you'll see where I'm coming from.

[CrAz3D]

Black & gay isn't the same thing though.  People don't choose to be black/white (except Wacko Jacko) usually.  People choose to become gay.

[Arta]

Nope. Not really. Even if they did, it wouldn't matter.

[CrAz3D]

It DOES matter becuase it IS a choice

[Mephisto]

It DOES matter becuase it IS a choice

Didn't we already establish that the 'forces' which cause someone to be gay are mostly genetic and environmental/external factors of influence?  Not necessarily a decision of 'I'm going to be gay.'