D0wn with Levi Strauss & C0.!

Hazard · March 30, 2005, 07:27 PM

Quote from: Arta[vL] on March 30, 2005, 05:48 PM
Just change 'gay' and 'homophobic' to 'black' and 'racist' in all your arguments, and you'll see where I'm coming from.

There is your problem. You automatically assume because somebody talks poorly about a group of people that they are racist, etc. If I were to say "I don't like the way that gay men choose draperies," you would break out into song and dance about how homophobic I am. If I were to say "I saw a black guy selling weed to kids in the school yard today," you'd freak on me screaming racism.

CrAz3D · March 30, 2005, 08:05 PM

By surrounding yourself around gay people you are choosing that way.

CrAz3D · March 30, 2005, 08:07 PM

Quote from: Hazard on March 30, 2005, 07:27 PM
Quote from: Arta[vL] on March 30, 2005, 05:48 PM
Just change 'gay' and 'homophobic' to 'black' and 'racist' in all your arguments, and you'll see where I'm coming from.

There is your problem. You automatically assume because somebody talks poorly about a group of people that they are racist, etc. If I were to say "I don't like the way that gay men choose draperies," you would break out into song and dance about how homophobic I am. If I were to say "I saw a black guy selling weed to kids in the school yard today," you'd freak on me screaming racism.

But would you say "I saw a white guy..." or would you say "I saw a guy..."? I catch myself sometimes sayin black guy when it isn't necessary, just out of societical habit

Forged · March 30, 2005, 08:45 PM

honestlly craz3d as I think it has already been pointed out I think you guys just pissed the wrong people off. Some one(with powere in levi) had a son who wanted to join but was denied because he was gay/atheist. It might be hypocritical, but you are the guys asking for a hand out not levi so the best you can do is grin and bare it.

CrAz3D · March 30, 2005, 09:35 PM

All I am trying to point out is that they are being hypocritical.

Forged · March 30, 2005, 10:29 PM

sort of, it really all depends on if you consider homosexuality genetic or choosen. If you consider it to be the latter yes they are being hypocritical, however if you consider it to be the former they are not.

CrAz3D · March 30, 2005, 10:32 PM

Science currently says it is chosen

EpicOfTimeWasted · March 31, 2005, 02:00 AM

Quote from: CrAz3D on March 30, 2005, 09:35 PM
All I am trying to point out is that they are being hypocritical.

Yeah, damned hypocrites at LS&Co shouldn't be allowed to decide who they fund, they should accept everyone with open arms just as the BSA does. Oh yeah, that's right...

CrAz3D · March 31, 2005, 08:20 AM

Have you read ANY of this thread?

Arta · March 31, 2005, 08:29 AM

Quote from: Hazard on March 30, 2005, 07:27 PM
Quote from: Arta[vL] on March 30, 2005, 05:48 PM
Just change 'gay' and 'homophobic' to 'black' and 'racist' in all your arguments, and you'll see where I'm coming from.

There is your problem. You automatically assume because somebody talks poorly about a group of people that they are racist, etc. If I were to say "I don't like the way that gay men choose draperies," you would break out into song and dance about how homophobic I am. If I were to say "I saw a black guy selling weed to kids in the school yard today," you'd freak on me screaming racism.

What a lovely paragraph of meaningless conjecture. That's all complete nonsense. What I assume is that a group that rejects someone based on a physical characteristic is racist, homophobic, sexist, or prejudiced in some manner. I think that assumption is valid.

Arta · March 31, 2005, 08:38 AM

Quote from: CrAz3D on March 30, 2005, 10:32 PM
Science currently says it is chosen

You've agreed in a previous thread that it's partially genetic. Therefore, it is not completely chosen. Surely that reasoning is obvious?

On the subject of science, well... I don't think science really knows yet. One study says it's a choice, another doesn't, another says it's both. We know there's definitely a genetic factor, and an environmental one too. We just don't know how they work together, or which is more influential. I don't really care if it's a choice or not, because I don't think it matters. It's irrelevant, because being gay has no relevance to someone's job performance; that is, unless you follow an archaic, outdated 2000-year-old morality with no base in reason.

I don't think I'm going to respond to your posts anymore. As previously noted, our positions are so far apart that there can't be any common ground. A debate in the absence of firm evidence or points of agreement is futile.

CrAz3D · March 31, 2005, 09:07 AM

racism<>homophobia<>sexism
Race & sex is something (generally with out extreme effort) one cannot change.

Sexuality is 50/50 according to 2 studies that I read. So, if 1 ½ of a person is TOTALLY gay & the environment is TOTALLY straight, then you'd get a screwed up person, otherwise if the environment is TOTALLY striaght, that should cancel out any 'gayness' a person has.

So, morality is outdated? The fact that murder is WRONG should be revised?

Adron · March 31, 2005, 09:56 AM

Quote from: CrAz3D on March 31, 2005, 09:07 AM
So, morality is outdated? The fact that murder is WRONG should be revised?

Absolutely. Pulling the plug on a brain-dead person is OK. Even if you're killing the body.

CrAz3D · March 31, 2005, 10:10 AM

I don't think that qualifies as murder.

Master_Nabo · March 31, 2005, 11:20 AM

Quote from: CrAz3D on March 31, 2005, 09:07 AM
racism<>homophobia<>sexism
Race & sex is something (generally with out extreme effort) one cannot change.

Sexuality is 50/50 according to 2 studies that I read. So, if 1 ½ of a person is TOTALLY gay & the environment is TOTALLY straight, then you'd get a screwed up person, otherwise if the environment is TOTALLY striaght, that should cancel out any 'gayness' a person has.

I have talked much about this with both science in mind and environmental and it seems that it tends to be more environmental then genetic, but not by much (say about 55/45). Even if you are born with homosexual tendencies, it does not mean you are a homosexual, and vice versa. To me, it seems more of a mental thing. But one can never be sure.

Quote from: Adron on March 31, 2005, 09:56 AM
Quote from: CrAz3D on March 31, 2005, 09:07 AM
So, morality is outdated? The fact that murder is WRONG should be revised?

Absolutely. Pulling the plug on a brain-dead person is OK. Even if you're killing the body.

I believe that murder does not apply to this situation, because if the person is brain dead (as in they cannot do anything by their own will except for involentary motions), I feel that they have already died. All that is left is a body, even though it appears to be living on its own. Humans have involentary actions that the brain and body carries out even if there is no one telling it to happen. Letting the body go is like nature taking its course, and if they are brain dead, they feel no pain, they just fall into a sleep while their body is shutting down.