Valhalla Legends Archive

Putting your life on the line for your country, isn't that 'heroic'? Why does it matter why you joined? Fireman are heroes, sure.. You don't know why everyone of them became a fireman though. My dad's a fireman, (well, was) I suppose he'd be considered a hero then to. All I'm saying is that, if you put your life on the line for the welfare of your country, you are a hero.

Quote from: Hazard on May 31, 2004, 09:31 AM
Fireman and policeman work in groups as well don't they? Soldiers do do something very special, they make the commitment that if neccessary they'll put their lives on the line to defend YOU. That isn't special to you?

I agree with Arta. Special people are heroes. All firemen and all policemen aren't heroes either. They're just more likely to be. American soldiers aren't likely at all to be heroes, because they don't need to be. They table is tilted in their favor. Palestinian freedom fighters are more likely to be heroes, they fight for something they believe in, and willingly sacrifice their lives.

If you put your life on the line for the heroic reasons, you are a hero. Heroic reasons don't include "if I do that, I'll get money/education/advantages/a kick, and most likely I won't ever get into a fight, or I'll be able to push a button that kills dozens of civilians while not putting myself at any more significant risk than the risk I take in my life driving to and from work every day."

Quote from: Adron on May 31, 2004, 12:56 PMI agree with Arta. Special people are heroes. All firemen and all policemen aren't heroes either. They're just more likely to be. American soldiers aren't likely at all to be heroes, because they don't need to be. They table is tilted in their favor. Palestinian freedom fighters are more likely to be heroes, they fight for something they believe in, and willingly sacrifice their lives.

Ah yes, remind me to strap a bomb on my chest and kill a bunch of innocent people when I feel like becoming a hero... I am joining the Marines to fight for something I believe in. I will put myself in the line of danger because I plan on taking part in what I believe in. I guess just because our military is better trained and equipped that somehow makes the risk they are taking insignificant.

QuoteIf you put your life on the line for the heroic reasons, you are a hero. Heroic reasons don't include "if I do that, I'll get money/education/advantages/a kick, and most likely I won't ever get into a fight, or I'll be able to push a button that kills dozens of civilians while not putting myself at any more significant risk than the risk I take in my life driving to and from work every day."

Oh so you have to commit suicide to be a hero then? Please correct me if I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but it doesn't make much sense to me.

Quote from: Adron on May 31, 2004, 12:56 PM

If you put your life on the line for the heroic reasons, you are a hero. Heroic reasons don't include "if I do that, I'll get money/education/advantages/a kick, and most likely I won't ever get into a fight, or I'll be able to push a button that kills dozens of civilians while not putting myself at any more significant risk than the risk I take in my life driving to and from work every day."

You know, its a no-no to use a word in its definition because it doesn't explain anything.

I'm joining the army in a few months, and I'll do my best to avoid being a hero.

Quote from: Yoni on June 01, 2004, 01:03 AM
I'm joining the army in a few months, and I'll do my best to avoid being a hero.

Do so. Heroics isn't the way to go if you want to come out alive and well.

Quote from: Hazard on May 31, 2004, 09:51 PM
You know, its a no-no to use a word in its definition because it doesn't explain anything.

Ah, but it does. If you're used to programming, defining, reading definitions, then a definition can explain everything.

Quote from: Tuberload on May 31, 2004, 07:54 PM
I guess just because our military is better trained and equipped that somehow makes the risk they are taking insignificant.

Not completely insignificant, but significantly smaller than it would be if you were to join a small, badly equipped group. So you're not as likely to become a hero.

Quote from: Tuberload on May 31, 2004, 07:54 PM
Oh so you have to commit suicide to be a hero then? Please correct me if I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but it doesn't make much sense to me.

No, you don't have to actually commit suicide. It would be enough to either achieve something great and admirable, or to show great courage when great courage is needed. You'd want to be in a situation where most people fail "to do the right thing" out of fear, lack of courage, and then act yourself.

I agree. I think being a hero is more about accomplishing something in the face of overwhelming odds, as well as putting your life on the line. That can apply to many walks of life too. How about someone who owns a struggling company employing a few thousand people. Say that person put all their assets and time and life into that company over a period of years to stop it going under, thus saving the jobs - the livelihoods - of thousands of people. Is there not a degree to which that person has behaved heroically?

Quote from: Adron on June 01, 2004, 04:45 AM

Quote from: Hazard on May 31, 2004, 09:51 PM
You know, its a no-no to use a word in its definition because it doesn't explain anything.

Ah, but it does. If you're used to programming, defining, reading definitions, then a definition can explain everything.

Well then you'll need to define heroism. If you define it as being a hero, then you've painted yourself into a corner haven't you?

Quote from: Adron on June 01, 2004, 04:44 AM

Quote from: Yoni on June 01, 2004, 01:03 AM
I'm joining the army in a few months, and I'll do my best to avoid being a hero.

Do so. Heroics isn't the way to go if you want to come out alive and well.

Ah, so it is better to be a coward and come out alive than to display courage and risk it?

Quote from: Adron on June 01, 2004, 04:54 AM
You'd want to be in a situation where most people fail "to do the right thing" out of fear, lack of courage, and then act yourself.

Isn't that what policeman, fireman, and soldiers do? Adron, Arta, I'm curious - what nationalities are you?

Quote from: Hazard on June 01, 2004, 06:57 AM

Quote from: Adron on June 01, 2004, 04:44 AM

Quote from: Yoni on June 01, 2004, 01:03 AM
I'm joining the army in a few months, and I'll do my best to avoid being a hero.

Do so. Heroics isn't the way to go if you want to come out alive and well.

Ah, so it is better to be a coward and come out alive than to display courage and risk it?

If you value your life, yes. It's all about priorities. Do you want to be a hero, or do you want to be alive and well? They don't exclude each other, but i think there is a somewhat negative covariance on those factors.

Quote from: Hazard on June 01, 2004, 06:58 AM

Quote from: Adron on June 01, 2004, 04:54 AM
You'd want to be in a situation where most people fail "to do the right thing" out of fear, lack of courage, and then act yourself.

Isn't that what policeman, fireman, and soldiers do? Adron, Arta, I'm curious - what nationalities are you?

I'm a Swede, and I think Arta is British. And yes, that's what some people do. Policemen, firemen and soldiers are more likely to do that than some other groups, but not all policemen firemen and soldiers do it.

Quote from: Hazard on June 01, 2004, 06:56 AM
Well then you'll need to define heroism. If you define it as being a hero, then you've painted yourself into a corner haven't you?

I wouldn't define being a hero or heroism in that way no. I'll go dig up a definition...

Quote
Main Entry: he·ro
Pronunciation: 'hir-(")O, 'hE-(")rO
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural heroes
Etymology: Latin heros, from Greek hErOs
1 a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability b : an illustrious warrior c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities d : one that shows great courage
2 a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement
3 plural usually heros : SUBMARINE 2
4 : an object of extreme admiration and devotion : IDOL

The definition listed there is pretty close to how I'd define it.