Pat Tillman, yet again

[K]

I couldn't find the old thread (was there one?) on Pat Tillman with the search.  Emphasis in article is my own.

Anyways:

Army: Friendly Fire Likely Killed Tillman

FORT BRAGG, N.C. - Pat Tillman was probably killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan (news - web sites) after a U.S. solider mistakenly shot at an Afghan soldier in the former NFL player's unit, military officials said Saturday.

Tillman walked away from a $3.6 million contract with the Arizona Cardinals to join the Army after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Previous military statements suggested he was killed by enemy fire.

According to an Army investigation, Tillman was shot to death on April 22 after the friendly Afghan soldier in Tillman's unit was mistakenly fired upon, and other U.S. soldiers then fired in the same direction.

"While there was no one specific finding of fault, the investigation results indicate that Cpl. Tillman probably died as a result of friendly fire while his unit was engaged in combat with enemy forces," Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr. said in a brief statement to reporters at the Army Special Operations Command.


Kensinger said the firefight took place in "very severe and constricted terrain with impaired light" with 10 to 12 enemy combatants firing on U.S. forces.


But an Afghan military official told The Associated Press on Saturday that Tillman died because of a "misunderstanding" when two mixed groups of American and Afghan soldiers began firing wildly in the confusion following a land mine explosion.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, the Afghan official said, "(There) were no enemy forces" present when Tillman died.

Kensinger, who heads Army Special Forces, took no questions Saturday morning after reading the Army statement. An Afghan Defense Ministry official declined to comment on whether enemy forces were present, while U.S. military officials in Afghanistan referred all queries to Fort Bragg.

In Washington, Pentagon (news - web sites) officials refused to comment on the Afghan report.

According to the Army's investigation, Tillman's team had split from a second unit when a Ranger whom the Army did not identify fired on a friendly Afghan soldier, mistaking him for the enemy.

Seeing that gunfire and not realizing its origin, other U.S. soldiers fired in the same direction, killing Tillman and an Afghan soldier. Two other Rangers were wounded in the gunfight.

"The results of this investigation in no way diminished the bravery and sacrifice displayed by Cpl. Tillman," Kensinger said.

Tillman, 27, left his position as a starting safety for Arizona to join the Army following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. He was posthumously promoted from specialist to corporal and awarded a Purple Heart and Silver Star, one of the military's highest honors, awarded for gallantry on the battlefield.

Thousands of people, including celebrities and politicians, attended a memorial service at Sun Devil Stadium earlier this month. At a memorial service in his hometown of San Jose, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., called him "a most honorable man."

"While many of us will be blessed to live a longer life, few of us will ever live a better one," said McCain, who spent 5 1/2 years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam.

A woman who answered the phone Saturday at the home of Tillman's uncle, Hank Tillman, said the family would have no comment on the findings in the Army's investigation.

At Fort Bragg, an officer with the 30th Engineer Battalion said the circumstances of Tillman's death do not change his heroism.

"A lot of us sacrifice something, but no one sacrificed as much as he did to join," Sgt. Matt Harbursky said as he prepared to play a round of golf at the base course. "And it doesn't really matter how he was killed, it's sad."

Prior to Saturday, the Army's most complete account of Tillman's death came in his Silver Star citation, which said he was killed after his platoon split into two sections for what officials called a ground assault convoy. Tillman was in charge of the lead group.

When the trailing group came under mortar and small arms fire, the Army said Tillman ordered his team to return.

"Through the firing, Tillman's voice was heard issuing fire commands to take the fight to the enemy on the dominating high ground," the citation said. "Only after his team engaged the well-armed enemy did it appear their fires diminished."

The Afghan official gave the AP a differing account, based on his conversation with an Afghan fighter from the group that was separated from Tillman's. The Afghan soldier said the two groups drifted apart during the operation in the remote Spera district of Khost province, close to the Pakistani border.

"Suddenly the sound of a mine explosion was heard somewhere between the two groups and the Americans in one group started firing," the official said.

"Nobody knew what it was — a mine, a remote-controlled bomb — or what was going on, or if enemy forces were firing. The situation was very confusing," the official said.

"As the result of this firing, that American was killed and three Afghan soldiers were injured. It was a misunderstanding and afterwards they realized that it was a mine that had exploded and there were no enemy forces."

Tillman's platoon was in the area as part of an effort called Operation Mountain Storm, in which they were charged with rooting out Taliban and al-Qaida fighters.

Tillman became the first NFL player to die in combat since the Vietnam War. He was one of about 100 U.S. soldiers to have been killed in Afghanistan since the United States invaded in 2001.

The first account and this new story sure do differ quite a bit, don't they?

[Hazard]

Who the fuck cares about Pat Tillman? All this bullshit every about "Pat Tillman - The American Hero"!? Why is his death so much more imporant than the nearly one thousand others?

[Raven]

Who the fuck cares about Pat Tillman? All this bullshit every about "Pat Tillman - The American Hero"!? Why is his death so much more imporant than the nearly one thousand others?

It's not more important. People just find it extra patriotic that he gave up millions and a life of prestige and luxury to go become a soldier and help defend his country. He wasn't any more important than any other soldier, nor did he ever consider himself that. People just find it remarkable that he was willing to give up so much to have the opportunity to defend his country. I think some people miss the reason Pat Tillman paying the ultimate price seems to be receiving more attention than the great sacrifices of his fellow soldiers.

[Hazard]

Of course its not more important, and it really pisses me off how people revere him as a hero but cannot name another soldier who died in Iraq. There are thousands in Iraq who have sacrificed more than money to be over there and fight, and giving him all the attention that he is getting is just plain stupid.

[K]

Of course its not more important, and it really pisses me off how people revere him as a hero but cannot name another soldier who died in Iraq. There are thousands in Iraq who have sacrificed more than money to be over there and fight, and giving him all the attention that he is getting is just plain stupid.

My thoughts exactly.  It's the way our country is, unfortunantly.  Isn't it kind of sad that most of our (American) youth look to athletes as rolemodels and heroes, and our culture obsesses over every little thing they do?  Professional athletes are for the most part uneducated overmuscular children who make millions of dollars a year to play a GAME and endorse SHOES.

If there's any REAL hero over there in Iraq or Afghanistan--regardless of whether you believe the war is justified or not--it's the soldiers who's names you don't know or see on TV, let alone having a televised memorial service with politicians attending it.


Edit:  Before I forget, the other reason I posted this was because things seemed a little fishy to me.  For those of you who think we need to trust our government blindly 100%, doesn't it seem like they tried to make a martyr out of Pat Tillman, by claiming his death was due to heroic actions and awarding him posthumous medals?

[Tuberload]

My thoughts exactly.  It's the way our country is, unfortunantly.  Isn't it kind of sad that most of our (American) youth look to athletes as rolemodels and heroes, and our culture obsesses over every little thing they do?  Professional athletes are for the most part uneducated overmuscular children who make millions of dollars a year to play a GAME and endorse SHOES.

If there's any REAL hero over there in Iraq or Afghanistan--regardless of whether you believe the war is justified or not--it's the soldiers who's names you don't know or see on TV, let alone having a televised memorial service with politicians attending it.


Edit:  Before I forget, the other reason I posted this was because things seemed a little fishy to me.  For those of you who think we need to trust our government blindly 100%, doesn't it seem like they tried to make a martyr out of Pat Tillman, by claiming his death was due to heroic actions and awarding him posthumous medals?

So if a person joins the military and dies for his country, even though he could have stayed in the US and made millions, that doesn't make him a hero? Don't get me wrong, I think the rest of the soldiers over there are heroes as well, but I think you need to figure out exactly whom it is you are blaming. You say the government, yet isn't it the media who is making such a big deal out of his death?

Also, going back to his NFL contract, I think he is one hell of a hero being he turned down millions of dollars to defend your right to bad mouth him...

Also, your point about NFL players being "uneducated overmuscular children" is absurd. Yes there are some players who might fit that description, but there are MANY of them who are very intelligent people looking to make a difference in the world. I have read about a lot of them doing fundraisers for all sorts of things, opening homes for children, and the countless other things true heroes do. I think it is perfectly normal for someone to look at a true hero of an NFL player as his or her role model.

[Zorm]

So if a person joins the military and dies for his country, even though he could have stayed in the US and made millions, that doesn't make him a hero? Don't get me wrong, I think the rest of the soldiers over there are heroes as well, but I think you need to figure out exactly whom it is you are blaming. You say the government, yet isn't it the media who is making such a big deal out of his death?

Also, going back to his NFL contract, I think he is one hell of a hero being he turned down millions of dollars to defend your right to bad mouth him...

Also, your point about NFL players being "uneducated overmuscular children" is absurd. Yes there are some players who might fit that description, but there are MANY of them who are very intelligent people looking to make a difference in the world. I have read about a lot of them doing fundraisers for all sorts of things, opening homes for children, and the countless other things true heroes do. I think it is perfectly normal for someone to look at a true hero of an NFL player as his or her role model.

I don't think of him as a hero for turning down millions. Im willing to bet a lot of the people in the military could have made more if they hadn't joined. He is a hero because like all of the other people in the military he is serving his country. Of course they are never really recongized as heros because politions are always using them as scape goats or blaming them for whatever other crap that the politions are really to blame for. This is another example of media hype much like proclaiming Lynch as a hero when she didn't do anything.

Sports players really shouldn't be looked upto as heros. Think how many of them have been charged with all sorts of crimes like drug possession, rape, etc. Doing something for charity because you are an over payed talenless loser doesn't make you a hero or a role model.

The account of his death isn't really that much different if you ask me. Seems rather easy to get confused when something explodes and the enemy has been using remote controlled bombs for some time.

[Tuberload]

I don't think of him as a hero for turning down millions. Im willing to bet a lot of the people in the military could have made more if they hadn't joined. He is a hero because like all of the other people in the military he is serving his country. Of course they are never really recongized as heros because politions are always using them as scape goats or blaming them for whatever other crap that the politions are really to blame for. This is another example of media hype much like proclaiming Lynch as a hero when she didn't do anything.

You're right it is completely political... They use it in an attempt to boost the moral, and unity of the United States civilians. No big secret, and it is the reason for the power the US posses, because of it's civilian unity.

Sports players really shouldn't be looked upto as heros. Think how many of them have been charged with all sorts of crimes like drug possession, rape, etc. Doing something for charity because you are an over payed talenless loser doesn't make you a hero or a role model.

I don't think anyone can determine who someone else should look to as a role model. Who do you think should be thought of as a role model? I bet I can find someone in that category that has been arrested for those crimes you just stated.

I also think you should sit down and actually learn about some of the pro athletes past and present. How can you judge a whole group of people because of what a few dumbass's chose to do? I am going to be joining the military soon, so that must mean I am going to sexualy abuse Iragi's...

The account of his death isn't really that much different if you ask me. Seems rather easy to get confused when something explodes and the enemy has been using remote controlled bombs for some time.

Ahh the price you pay during war. I guess because of that, every other soldier (from any country) that died because of similar circumstances must not be a hero either.

[Hazard]

So if a person joins the military and dies for his country, even though he could have stayed in the US and made millions, that doesn't make him a hero?

No it doesn't. It shouldn't fucking matter what he gave up. Every man and woman over there who fights and dies is a hero. People have given up a whole lot more than money to be over there fighting and dying. Why is his millions of dollars in sacrifices worth more than John Q. Mechanic who works at Sears tire center?

Also, going back to his NFL contract, I think he is one hell of a hero being he turned down millions of dollars to defend your right to bad mouth him...

How about the man who has died, getting NO media coverage mind you, who will never see his wife and newborn child again any less newsworthy than a man who gave up money?

Pat Tillman is an American hero. So are the nearly one thousand others who have died whose names have never seen newsprint or been aired on a news broadcast. Should he be glorified any more than any other soldier? Fuck no. Should he be reveared for giving up all this money (which is sooooooooo important)? Fuck no. Should he, however, be honored equally with all the other men and women who have sacrficied everything to defend freedom? Fuck yes. He is equal. No more, no less.

[Eibro]

The real heroes are the soldiers that defected to Canada to avoid the war/jail time.

[Raven]

The real heroes are the soldiers that defected to Canada to avoid the war/jail time.

Troll.

[warz]

So if a person joins the military and dies for his country, even though he could have stayed in the US and made millions, that doesn't make him a hero?

No it doesn't. It shouldn't fucking matter what he gave up. Every man and woman over there who fights and dies is a hero. People have given up a whole lot more than money to be over there fighting and dying. Why is his millions of dollars in sacrifices worth more than John Q. Mechanic who works at Sears tire center?

Also, going back to his NFL contract, I think he is one hell of a hero being he turned down millions of dollars to defend your right to bad mouth him...

How about the man who has died, getting NO media coverage mind you, who will never see his wife and newborn child again any less newsworthy than a man who gave up money?

Pat Tillman is an American hero. So are the nearly one thousand others who have died whose names have never seen newsprint or been aired on a news broadcast. Should he be glorified any more than any other soldier? Fuck no. Should he be reveared for giving up all this money (which is sooooooooo important)? Fuck no. Should he, however, be honored equally with all the other men and women who have sacrficied everything to defend freedom? Fuck yes. He is equal. No more, no less.

Do something about it, then. Go give every other soldier their press coverage. You're points in this argument are stupid.

[Adron]

So if a person joins the military and dies for his country, even though he could have stayed in the US and made millions, that doesn't make him a hero?

No it doesn't. It shouldn't fucking matter what he gave up. Every man and woman over there who fights and dies is a hero. People have given up a whole lot more than money to be over there fighting and dying. Why is his millions of dollars in sacrifices worth more than John Q. Mechanic who works at Sears tire center?

Note #1: Money is holy in America. Giving up the holy items to fight for his belief makes him a hero to americans.

Note #2: Every man and woman over there who fights and dies aren't heroes. Some are, some are not. No matter what they give up. It's possible that this particular guy shit his pants when a mine blew up, started firing away like crazy, and got shot by his allies, noticing gunfire coming in their direction from something hidden. That doesn't sound very heroic to me.

[warz]

It's possible that this particular guy shit his pants when a mine blew up, started firing away like crazy, and got shot by his allies, noticing gunfire coming in their direction from something hidden. That doesn't sound very heroic to me.

There are a lot of things possible that aren't heroic. If we want to start using them as reason #1 and #2's then we could go on all day.

[K]

Pat Tillman is an American hero. So are the nearly one thousand others who have died whose names have never seen newsprint or been aired on a news broadcast. Should he be glorified any more than any other soldier? Fuck no. Should he be reveared for giving up all this money (which is sooooooooo important)? Fuck no. Should he, however, be honored equally with all the other men and women who have sacrficied everything to defend freedom? Fuck yes. He is equal. No more, no less.

This is exactly what I'm getting at.  Nowhere in my original post did I claim Pat Tillman hadn't done something honorable; what I pointed out was that he's getting a lot more attention than the others who have died, who's names took me a while to find ONLINE.  
here

You're right it is completely political... They use it in an attempt to boost the moral, and unity of the United States civilians. No big secret, and it is the reason for the power the US posses, because of it's civilian unity.

Come ON.  Shouldn't our civilian unity be based on something that isn't MADE UP by the government?  The original account of his death was an incredible overstatement at best and a bunch of bullshit propoganda at worst.  Are you saying it's ok for the government to lie to the people to keep morale up? Paging Joseph Goebel, paging Joseph Goebel...

So if a person joins the military and dies for his country, even though he could have stayed in the US and made millions, that doesn't make him a hero?

It doesn't make him more of a hero than Private Shawn Pahnke of Shellbyville Indiana, who enlisted to serve his country after his father served in Vietnam and his grandfather in World War II.  Who knows how much money Pahnke might have made if he hadn't been killed by a sniper?  Who CARES.  Pahnke may have left behind a mountain of fucking debt for all I care.  He also left behind a wife and a child he never saw.

How come Mr. Pahnke isn't receiving nationwide newscoverage and being hailed as an "American Hero?"