Illegal Immigrants

[CrAz3D]

The Senate proposal I mentioned earlier was passed last week some time while the strict House of Representative legislation is still in debate, though it seems unlikely at this point it has a chance of passing in the Senate.

did it not just fail in the senate the other day?


EDIT:

If you're here ILLEGALLY then you are an ILLEGAL immigrant which means you are doing something ILLEGAL which makes you a CRIMINAL, DUH!...
God, people are so f'ing retarded

[Grok]

If you're here ILLEGALLY then you are an ILLEGAL immigrant which means you are doing something ILLEGAL which makes you a CRIMINAL, DUH!...
God, people are so f'ing retarded

Yes, they are.  They really are f'ing retarded.

You do not create a criminal by making a law against someone who is otherwise doing nothing wrong.  Jose come to America, gets a job doing crap work at crap pay and taking your abuse, but not complaining a bit, just happy to be living a peaceful life at $2/hr.  So you make a law against his existence, which makes his existence "ILLEGAL" (using all caps because you think it is necessary) here.  By pure definition, your definition, he is now a CRIMINAL.

If I made a law against green shirts, everyone who is wearing one would be a CRIMINAL.  But are they criminals?  No, they're just wearing green shirts, which f'ing retards would make ILLEGAL by creating a law against them.  Other f'ing retards make laws against decent people who come to the US to live peacefully and work, so those f'ing retards who made the laws, and those f'ing retards who support the laws, call the peaceful people CRIMINAL, and they do it in all caps.

[CrAz3D]

The law existed before Jose came over.  Immigrations laws are needed and you know damn well that they are.

make laws against decent people who come to the US to live peacefully and work

What about the illegal immigrants whom aren't from Mexico looking for work?  What about the people that can get over the US-Mexico border in the same fashion as the mexicans looking for work?  You have drug runners, terrorists, and human smugglers.  Should we just accept those people as a necessary side effect to allowing people to cross our borders whenever they feel like it?

What about the public facilities the illegals use that they do not pay for?  Is that fair for anyone in Ameica?

[Ringo]

If you're here ILLEGALLY then you are an ILLEGAL immigrant which means you are doing something ILLEGAL which makes you a CRIMINAL, DUH!...
God, people are so f'ing retarded

Then get your ass out of the USA and give it back to the Native American Indians, because, you are just an immigrant on there land, if you want to put it that way.

[MysT_DooM]

We can't we all just share

i have no problems with them mexicans, they make our lives alot easier tbh, without them a majority of our landscaping and if you own biznesss's, would go down the barrel.  there good people who just want to make it in the world, and i say they are more then welcome in the land of oppurtunity usa

as for the native americans mister ringo, I think they are quite happy hustling us with thier casinos

[CrAz3D]

If you're here ILLEGALLY then you are an ILLEGAL immigrant which means you are doing something ILLEGAL which makes you a CRIMINAL, DUH!...
God, people are so f'ing retarded

Then get your ass out of the USA and give it back to the Native American Indians, because, you are just an immigrant on there land, if you want to put it that way.

If you want to put it that way, the Mexicans were here first.  However, after war and treaties we won, they lost, game over, it is belong to us now.  Also, I'm not an immigrant that came over during the major persecution of Indians, my families came here after that.

We can't we all just share

i have no problems with them mexicans, they make our lives alot easier tbh, without them a majority of our landscaping and if you own biznesss's, would go down the barrel.  there good people who just want to make it in the world, and i say they are more then welcome in the land of oppurtunity usa

as for the native americans mister ringo, I think they are quite happy hustling us with thier casinos

Sharing is nice, but it works 2 ways.  The illegal immigrants are getting the benefits of our economy, our health care, and our schools.  We benefit from their cheap labor, yes.  I'd REALLY like to see a study done on how much illegal immigrants contribute to our economy vs. how much they hurt our economy.

[MyndFyre]

You do not create a criminal by making a law against someone who is otherwise doing nothing wrong.

Holy fuck.  Grok, they were here illegally first.  They are already criminals.  By being here illegally.  That's why they're called "illegal" immigrants.

[Arta]

I completely agree with Grok. The nature of criminality is far more complex than a simple matter of law.

I think the argument that illegal immigrants mainly have jobs and do work that American citizens don't want is compelling. Obviously it would be preferable if people didn't immigrate illegally, but in my mind, that raises a simple question: why do people choose to enter America illegally? I don't know the details, but I'd imagine there must be some reason that people don't choose the legal route.

[Warrior]

Okay, we came and we took the land by force from the natives. Now they tried to stop us right? Okay so they lost.

Now, they are coming into our land and we don't want them here. Plain and simple they will be forced off or tried as criminals if they do not stop coming. It goes to extremes because of them.

It's a game of which country is stronger, and we are. If we don't want them here then they damn sure arn't going to be here.

[Grok]

One person says get out and come back legally.  OK, let's explore that.  Is that what you want someone to do?  The question then becomes, is the "legal immigration process" designed such as to encourage immigration to America, or to prevent it?  If it is designed to encourage it, then it is probably an expiditious process which would allow someone to move here legally on a temporary work visa while they pursue citizenship.

However, we all know that is not true.  Immigration laws are designed to keep people out.  America is build with immigrants such as Crazed's great- or great-great- grandparents, and on the backs of my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents who literally helped bring thousands of immigrants to settle the Guadalupe River Basin area in Texas.

Some time, and I don't know when, certain elite Americans decided they would stop people from coming to America, and thus keep all the generous economy to themselves.  And voila, we have more billionaires than any country in the world, more poverty than any industrialized nation, with the largest percentage of our "legal" citizens locked up in harsh prisons which do not make any pretense at rehabilitation.  Pitting Americans against immigrants is a terrific distraction from the real issues we have in this country.  I'm happy to see so many sheep dutifully doing the will of their herder and fighting against honest hard-working people who want nothing more than to live in peace and raise a family in a place where their prosperity can be a direct result of their sweat and tears.

There are Americans who forget all of that and willfully baa-aa-aa their chants of "ILLEGAL by definition" and "CRIMINALS" when talking about these good people.  Are they all good?  No, there are probably actual criminals in that population the same as there are criminals walking past you in the mall, wearing their Dockers and Old Navy.  But "illegal immigrants" is a double slam that can get the most simple-minded into a lather, thankfully forgetting the steady soaking being done to them by the super rich and elite, thankfully forgetting that our educational system stinks so bad that free thinking is not even a concept in US public schools.  For if we taught the sheep to think, we might have actual interest in solving real problems and not infighting against OMG, illegal immigrants.

[CrAz3D]

I completely agree with Grok. The nature of criminality is far more complex than a simple matter of law.

I think the argument that illegal immigrants mainly have jobs and do work that American citizens don't want is compelling. Obviously it would be preferable if people didn't immigrate illegally, but in my mind, that raises a simple question: why do people choose to enter America illegally? I don't know the details, but I'd imagine there must be some reason that people don't choose the legal route.

But is the argument compelling enough to allow people to break into our country?
If the issue is cheap labor, hell, let's bring back slavery!  I bet that is even CHEAPER than illegal immigrants, plus it is could be legal!
I Support Slavery For '06!


Grok, what do you suppose would happen to America if we had no immigration laws at all?  Do you think people would both to report themselves when they come here?  Do you think our quality of life would be any better than it is now?

I believe most people would see oppurtunity, come here and work...without reporting themselves, without paying taxes, but still demanding that the American government offer schooling and other public services.
I think our quality of life would plummet.  We would become a 3rd world country.  No law, no order, no control, no taxes, no decent public facilities, it would be hell on earth just like most of Mexico is today.
You don't want to live in a good America I suggest you get your confused ass down to Mexico and see what happens when no real control is taken.  Spend a few years in hell, you'll come back with a new perspective.

[Grok]

You don't want to live in a good America I suggest you get your confused ass down to Mexico and see what happens when no real control is taken.  Spend a few years in hell, you'll come back with a new perspective.

Because this is what you have done?

I have travelled to a dozen countries and rather than go straight for titty bars and get stone cold drunk, I preferred to talk to the people and learn about their lives, believes, their daily routines, their politics, what they worry about, and just general bullshit.  It quickly removed any provincialism that I might have been afflicted with prior to leaving the United States.

You, in my opinion, are grossly provincialized, and that is a terrible flaw for a humankind to have who considers himself part of humanity.  It seems you consider yourself not a human, but a god damned red blooded shit kicking give em hell Harry, American.  Is this far from the truth?

[CrAz3D]

Then you obviously know how bad it is in Mexico because they have laws they do not enforce.

You never answered my question, you avoided it nicely.
I'll ask again, maybe you missed it the first time.

Do you think the United States would be better off with unrestricted access?  Anyone coming whenever they please without reporting themselves?  Would our quality of life increase/decrease/stay as it is? 

[Warrior]

The people who helped build up Americas economy lived+died here most likely. So because one generation of a particular race helps our country we're supposed to let everyone in? Sorry. Being American is a priviledge.

Like I said, we are a superpower and can do whatever we want whenever we want. Whoever doesn't like it is wrong and probably weak. If we say we don't want Mexicans then we don't want them.

[CrAz3D]

If we say we don't want Mexicans then we don't want them.

it isnt that..I want mexicans, mainly because I dont want to pick fruit + I like eating fruit.
i just dont want illegal immigrants