Iraq Pictures, could be upsetting...

[CrAz3D]

Fuck foreign aid. Sought our own countrys out. I dont want to donate money to oxfam and have it sent to Iraq or India or somewhere. I wnat my money to go to this country or Use I could benefit from such as Cance Research UK.

I bet we'd look worse if we stopped helping.

[Arta]

I don't think it's propaganda, but I do think it's not a very realistic portrayal of the situation in Iraq.

I've never thought that our presence in Iraq is a Wholly Bad Thing(tm), I just think that it'll do more harm than good in the long run. I also think that the lies and/or incompetence upon which the case for war was made is inexcusable.

[DarkMinion]

Listen to yourselves for god's sake.

"Soldiers and happy Iraqi's are right-wing propoganda."

"Dead people and unhappy Iraqi's are left-wing propoganda."

Here's an idea:

NONE OF IT IS FUCKING PROPOGANDA.  IT'S ALL FUCKING REAL.  IT'S A WAR, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FUCKING DIE.   MOST PEOPLE OVER THERE ARE FUCKING GOING TO BE HAPPY ABOUT US OUSTING SADDAM.  IF YOU THINK THEY'RE NOT, YOU'RE FUCKING INSANE.  PERIOD.

Showing pictures of happy Iraqi's and friendly soldiers isn't going to convince the left-wingers that their idea of American soldiers being evil, programmed killing machines terrorizing the innocent Iraqi civilians on a daily basis at the whim of their "tyrant" commander is wrong.

Showing pictures of dead insurgents and unfortunate dead civilians (collateral damage, which sucks, but it happens in war) isn't going to convince the right-wingers to have mercy and pull out of Iraq before we "spark World War 3"

Grow up for god's sake.

[DarkMinion]

And also, the reason for moving in was not based on lies IMO.  We didn't find WMD, that's true, but we did find the facilities and means for creating them in several places, and evidence that Saddam moved his WMD to Syria (which is easily feasible and could've been done relatively quickly) in order to fool the inspectors before he knew that we were going to hit him with an all out assault is piling up.

[Arta]

NONE OF IT IS FUCKING PROPOGANDA.  IT'S ALL FUCKING REAL.  IT'S A WAR, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FUCKING DIE.   MOST PEOPLE OVER THERE ARE FUCKING GOING TO BE HAPPY ABOUT US OUSTING SADDAM.  IF YOU THINK THEY'RE NOT, YOU'RE FUCKING INSANE.  PERIOD.

I agree.

And also, the reason for moving in was not based on lies IMO.  We didn't find WMD, that's true, but we did find the facilities and means for creating them in several places, and evidence that Saddam moved his WMD to Syria (which is easily feasible and could've been done relatively quickly) in order to fool the inspectors before he knew that we were going to hit him with an all out assault is piling up.

Source?

[quasi-modo]

lets recall his ease of moving al sammoud II missiles for a long ass time. Not to mention we never found a scud but we know he had them obviously because he popped three off when we were inserting ourselves into the south end of his country.

[Grok]

<offtopic> How was it not obvious my post about Daniel Jackson of SG-1 was a joke? </offtopic>

The OP posts a few snapshots to point out that good things happen in Iraq as a result of the USA presence.  Totally agree, but it's an argument void of worth.

I can find 9 things to phtograph as "good things that came out of" - the Charles Manson clan, the Jonestown(?) suicides, the Ted Bundy Chi Omega rape and murders, the Oklahoma City bombing, Hitler invading Poland, and the US atomic bombings of Japan.  Would the photograph as justification to the crime?  I think any reasonable person would say 'no', but I am open to enlightenment.

The crux of the opposition argument to the war is simple, and I have yet to see any supporter address it directly.  We attacked Iraq based on what we thought was a reliable and factual report of their WMD technological development, and the facts turned out to be wrong.

There's a lot of -
"we thought at the time"
"Iraq is better without Saddam"
"good things come out of the US invasion/occupation of Iraq"
"the world is a safer place without Saddam"
"America is a safer place"

..and many more hindsight justifications to the invasion.  But we WERE wrong and did attack a country for the wrong reasons.  The world would have far more respect for us if we would stand up, admit our mistake, apologize for it, and face our mistake and get the hell out of Iraq or make it a US territory.

(more on the "make it a US territory" later today in a new topic)

[MyndFyre]

I can find 9 things to phtograph as "good things that came out of" - the Charles Manson clan, the Jonestown(?) suicides, the Ted Bundy Chi Omega rape and murders, the Oklahoma City bombing, Hitler invading Poland, and the US atomic bombings of Japan.  Would the photograph as justification to the crime?  I think any reasonable person would say 'no', but I am open to enlightenment.

I don't know, I think the US atomic bombings were probably justified.  It's really hard to say; I'm certainly glad I did not have to pull the trigger.

But we WERE wrong and did attack a country for the wrong reasons. 

What were the wrong reasons?  Are there right reasons?

The world would have far more respect for us if we would stand up, admit our mistake, apologize for it, and face our mistake and get the hell out of Iraq or make it a US territory.

I patently disagree with you on this point.  No matter what the US does I cannot see the world having any measure of "respect" (as you mean it) that they have now.  The world of course respects the fact that we could wipe a country off the face of the world at will.  But they also respect the fact that we would never do so, and so they can feel much more at liberty to hate us.  We are the world's hegemon, the sole hyperpower, and no matter what happens, they will hate us.  (I thought you were libertarian.  Don't you believe in the anarchical international system -> balance of power theories?)

[Grok]

Since you are so much in disagreement with me, are you intending to say that if one can find 9 photographs of good things from any action, then that action has been supported as a good thing itself?  That was the intent of the OP, IMHO.

[Networks]

Today in my govt class we were discussing the real reputation of America and many ignorant people don't realize it's not a good one. Wake up and develop a taste for the world.

Please provide facts and evidence that half of the world hates us and hates what we're doing to Iraq.

I never gave a proportinate number Newby, in any event we found a poll that linked words such as "rude" to America and many found it to be true. It's simply ignorant to think that the whole world likes you and what you're doing is always the right thing. Real evidence is who our allies are in this Iraqi conflict. Hate is a strong word, it's more or less dislike not HATE.

[CrAz3D]

<offtopic> How was it not obvious my post about Daniel Jackson of SG-1 was a joke? </offtopic>

I don't know, they looked quite similar so I assumed you were serious, you always seem to counter most things.

The OP posts a few snapshots to point out that good things happen in Iraq as a result of the USA presence.  Totally agree, but it's an argument void of worth.

You could say the same about any 'bad' photos taken then, too.

I can find 9 things to phtograph as "good things that came out of" - the Charles Manson clan, the Jonestown(?) suicides, the Ted Bundy Chi Omega rape and murders, the Oklahoma City bombing, Hitler invading Poland, and the US atomic bombings of Japan.  Would the photograph as justification to the crime?  I think any reasonable person would say 'no', but I am open to enlightenment.

You say you can find 9 photos showing a level of human compassion in those events?

The crux of the opposition argument to the war is simple, and I have yet to see any supporter address it directly.  We attacked Iraq based on what we thought was a reliable and factual report of their WMD technological development, and the facts turned out to be wrong.

There's a lot of -
"we thought at the time"
"Iraq is better without Saddam"
"good things come out of the US invasion/occupation of Iraq"
"the world is a safer place without Saddam"
"America is a safer place"

..and many more hindsight justifications to the invasion.  But we WERE wrong and did attack a country for the wrong reasons.  The world would have far more respect for us if we would stand up, admit our mistake, apologize for it, and face our mistake and get the hell out of Iraq or make it a US territory.

(more on the "make it a US territory" later today in a new topic)

As you memntioned, hindsight.
That means it is done & over with....we're there, we can't leave, drop it.

Since you are so much in disagreement with me, are you intending to say that if one can find 9 photographs of good things from any action, then that action has been supported as a good thing itself?  That was the intent of the OP, IMHO.

The original post was just meant to show that it isn't just America destroying everything over there, that there is still human compassion and good coming from it all.