Status of Iraq

[Mephisto]

It seems the death toll in Iraq for US casualties has hit 2,000 (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/25/iraq.main/index.html).  Recent polls presented on Good Morning America (10/26) indicate a 49%/49% split in whether the war was a mistake or not.  Additionally a poll indicates 57% agree that the war has gone bad.

I personally think it's time to take some serious decisive action to accomplish what we set out to do in Iraq (or what we decided we were going to do after discovering weapons of mass destruction did not exist) and get out.  It's ridiculous that we are expected to be in Iraq for an unknown/extended period of time.  Also, I found it quite funny that George Bush made the comment that "our soldiers deserve a committment to serve the U.S. military until our means are met in Iraq" (something like that).

Discuss.

Edit: Interesting article about George Bush and his party's approval ratings.  http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/25/poll.bush/index.html

[Invert]

It seems the death toll in Iraq for US casualties has hit 2,000 (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/25/iraq.main/index.html).  Recent polls presented on Good Morning America (10/26) indicate a 49%/49% split in whether the war was a mistake or not.  Additionally a poll indicates 57% agree that the war has gone bad.

I personally think it's time to take some serious decisive action to accomplish what we set out to do in Iraq (or what we decided we were going to do after discovering weapons of mass destruction did not exist) and get out.  It's ridiculous that we are expected to be in Iraq for an unknown/extended period of time.  Also, I found it quite funny that George Bush made the comment that "our soldiers deserve a committment to serve the U.S. military until our means are met in Iraq" (something like that).

Discuss.

OMG you liberal hippy! What do you think will happen to Iraq when we pull out? You think it will just all be fine? You think it won't turn into another Afghanistan where it turned into a cesspool for terrorists and Muslim extremists? Look at the past wars 2,000 dead is nothing! I also have to remind you that this is an all volunteer army! It's funny to me how the liberals who are the disease, a virus that this country is infected with use that statistic as a political pedestal. Do you think that those scum liberals care about the 2,000 dead?

We have lost over 3,000 people on 9/11, we took a stand on terrorism, so what that there are no weapons of mass destruction, there are terrorists there that are willing to harm our way of life here in the United States, they want to blow you up and cut your head off! Liberal ideas like that are what make this country weak! An example of what makes this country weak is the liberal media, they are the best friend of those Muslim terror groups, just to get ratings they will spin every story and show how terrorists threaten us and scare little kids like you into believing that we need to run with our tail between our legs.

I served in the military and I know what it's like being a soldier, do you? The unit that I served with is in Iraq right now 4/23d Infantry part of 172nd Stryker brigade, they have all volunteered to make this country safer so liberal scum like you can go around spilling this liberal  nonsense all over the place and not get their head cut off!

[Adron]

Although, what is really interesting is that you only lost 3000 people in 9/11 but have wasted insane amounts of money because of it. And investing just a tiny part of that money in other places, such as the New Orleans disaster preventing, could have accomplished very much.

[CrAz3D]

I'm quite sure had everyone known that a huge hurricane would hit NEw Orleans and destroy it years in advance, things would've changed.  But, there was no specific absolute knowledge of that, so, we deicded to fight America-hating scum

[Invert]

Don't get me wrong by my post, I don't support the Bush administration and I did not think we should have gone to war with Iraq. It's too late to say "what if" now, we are there and we need to fix it. We can't let the liberal's f that up for us.

The Bush administration spends money they don't have and will not raise taxes. They are running up the biggest credit card bill in the world. The whole situation in the United States is pissing me off, and the damn liberals with their socialistic ideologies are making this worse.

[Adron]

I'm quite sure had everyone known that a huge hurricane would hit NEw Orleans and destroy it years in advance, things would've changed.  But, there was no specific absolute knowledge of that, so, we deicded to fight America-hating scum

Well, the point here is that war is so very inefficient. You waste an awful lot of money, accomplishing very little. No matter how you look at it, there is no way that war against terrorism will ever be cost-efficient saving human lives. It would always be much better to feed starving, cure sick, etc.

[Arta]

I'm quite sure had everyone known that a huge hurricane would hit NEw Orleans and destroy it years in advance, things would've changed.  But, there was no specific absolute knowledge of that, so, we deicded to fight America-hating scum

That's really not true. People had been saying for years that it was just a matter of time. I suppose that's a topic for another thread, thouh.

[Grok]

This thread is already full of emotion packed responses.  We've only on page 1.  So much to say, where do I begin?

1) What we started out to do?  Find and destroy those weapons of mass destruction.

Not found, didn't exist, proof found that the evidence was fabricated.  Everyone apologizes, USA still in Iraq.  Government destroyed.  Good riddance.
However, we've done what we set out to do, removing WMD from Iraq.  They're gone, even if they weren't there in the first place.  Leave.

*NOTICE*  I am not a liberal hippy.  However, even if I were, the opinions I hold are either true or false and stand on their own.  Attacking the bearer of an opinion rather than responding to the opinion itself is a position of weakness.

2) 2000 lost, volunteers or not, over a war that was won before it was started, is absurd.  It's not necessary to spend $1 billion, $80 billion, or $280 billion, to fight a war you have already won.

3) "We cannot pull out now it would turn into another Afghanistan."  Oh?  You mean that country that has been our allies for a hundred years?  Is that so terrible?  How does our ally now suck?  Besides, there are hundreds of countries where the USA is not occupying them, and they're managing to make choices for themselves just fine.  If the USA pulls out of Iraq, there will most certainly be a power struggle.  We expect that the most determined and resourceful people will take power.  This will happen whether we pull out in 10 days from now, or 20 years from now.  The day we're gone whatever government we "established" for them will be target #1 for those in the waiting.

4) We knew specifically that the New Orleans dikes would only hold a Cat 3 hurricane.  It was well-documented by the engineers who built it.  Katrina was a Cat 4 when it hit New Orleans.  No engineer or planner was surprised at the result.  This has been known for 70 years.  Let me point out the idiocity of living in a soup bowl.  The entire city is below sea level.  That's fine for somewhere in North Dakota but not if you live 50 yards from the Gulf of Mexico, a.k.a. "the sea" which you are "below level of".

5) All volunteer armed forces.  Doesn't make one bit of difference whether those fighting are conscripted or volunteer.  It is no reason to silence people's opinions.  After all those serving are pawns of the government, which is supposed to be the force of will of the people.  Since the power of government is the people, then what people (including the ones stating opinions here) have to say is important to be heard and discussed.  From there you can agree or disagree with their opinions, but that does not make them "scum" because it differs from you.

I'm more apt to call someone "scum" who doesn't want an opposing opinion to be heard.

[CrAz3D]

The "war we have already won" would be lost if we pulled out now (before a completely stable government was in place).  We have a tendency of blowing things up and then rebuilding them better, maybe we should've attacked New Orleans & then rebuilt it pre-Katrina.

Afghanistan before the recent US invasion was run by the Taliban whom supported Osama.  True, he was a type of ally before he decided to turn around & attack the hand that fed him.

Had Cat 3+ hurricanes come close to ravaging N.O. I'm sure something would've been done.  Just as if some terrorists had come close to bombing the U.S. something would've been done to prevent all of it.  Good lessons are learned the hard way.  Hopefully that place won't be rebuilt as a residential city.

"Liberal scum" may be off based, "anti-America scum", I feel, is right on target.  Without liberalism there would be way too much class seperation, those ideals are needed to keep the country from falling.  anti-American ideals would cause the country to fall.

[Falcon[anti-yL]]

Just as if some terrorists had come close to bombing the U.S. something would've been done to prevent all of it.

We will never be completely ready to prevent all attacks, terrorists will continue finding ways to get past the system.

[Invert]

Just as if some terrorists had come close to bombing the U.S. something would've been done to prevent all of it.

We will never be completely ready to prevent all attacks, terrorists will continue finding ways to get past the system.

How many attacks have we had here in the United States since we took out the Taliban in Afghanistan and invaded Iraq? Let me help you, the answer is none!

Far left hippy liberals are anti-American scum. Cindy Sheehan is a good example. Everything she did was for political gain and not for her dead son who got his memory disgraced and was overshadowed by her BS.

[shout]

Another topic of Liberals vs. Conservatives.

The topic of how we got to Iraq is for another thread. But now it is what must be done.

Lets use history as an example. WWI (I think) was started in the balken peninsula, where poorer countries made alliences this way and that. Then one assassination started the conflict. Could that not happen again in the Middle East? This may be the wrong way of looking at it, but having presence in the Middle East is a moderatly good way of making sure all of the middle east does not erupt into war.

Lets take a look at statistics. 2000 people died in Iraq. How many people were murdered in Washington, D.C. last year? How many people died of hunger right here in the U.S.? How many people died of the flu? 2000 people is nothing compared to the pontential positives of having a presence in the middle east. I'm sorry to say, but human lives are expendable.

I personally think we should stay in Iraq until the area becomes acceptably stable.

[Explicit]

I'm sorry to say, but human lives are expendable.

Would you say that if it were your life that you were staking?

[shout]

I'm sorry to say, but human lives are expendable.

Would you say that if it were your life that you were staking?

Yes. Would I like it? No.

[Explicit]

I'm sorry to say, but human lives are expendable.

Would you say that if it were your life that you were staking?

Yes. Would I like it? No.

Just about anyone can say they would be willing to do something, but when it comes down to it, chances are they won't.