Valhalla Legends Archive

Quote from: Arta[vL] on February 18, 2004, 10:36 AMdropping $50,000,000 worth of bombs on someone's country and then riding around in a humvee doesn't really compare to a conflict like WW2 or Vietnam.

No kidding. I've heard each of those tomahawk missiles cost some 1.5 million dollars to make, and it's a one-time use. What a waste of money! Doesn't the U.S. have better means of blowing something up? Or at least cheaper?

Spending millions of dollars on weapons that get used only once is quite a waste. And then the U.S. government complains because of not having any money!

What's more sad is that the millions of dollars spent on those one-time-use weapons is pretty much pennies to the budget of the U.S. defense. I wonder where else they're wasting such insane amounts of money?

If we'd take the same amount of money used for those weapons and bought food for countries, there'd not be so much starving... and perhaps not so much envy towards the U.S.

Or even better, if we used the same money to create jobs in, not just our country but foreign countries as well, we'd help with poverty levels too.

Quote from: Grok on February 17, 2004, 07:14 PM
Good to know where your values are.  Doctors making $250,000 +++ per year saving people's lives, but destroying their patients finances is more noble than soldiers saving lives while earning only $5/hour and getting shot at, tortured, and ridiculed by their own people back home.

Absolutely. If all the world were doctors, the world would be a much better place than if all the world were soldiers.

Yes that all sounds nice, but the sad fact is that is not the world we live in. It would all be nice if no one had a standing army, and everyone pitched in to feed the poor. Instead we got pissed off terrorists, and other countries out their that not only want us dead, they want everyone who doesn't think like them dead as well.

QuoteDon't let a news report fool you into thinking war is fun. War is hell. Obviousl I can't say that from personal experience, but I think anyone who's been in a real one would. I say real because, IMO, dropping $50,000,000 worth of bombs on someone's country and then riding around in a humvee doesn't really compare to a conflict like WW2 or Vietnam.

Yes that's all true, but what could have happened during WW2 if we didn't have those soldiers to fight? A big reason why we have, and continue to keep, our freedom is because of our military.

The politicians are the ones who make this country look bad, not our soldiers. I don't see how you can sit here and bad mouth a soldier, who even though he may be scared out of his mind, still fights for what he feels is a better cause. You talk about feeding countries. I think it's just as noble to go in and liberate a suppressed civilization. Bush is the one who turned the Iraq war into a joke, not the soldiers.

I am going to join the military, but only because it is what I believe, not because someone else told me to.

Great but you're smart and if you want to make a difference, go as an officer.  Get your college degree then apply to OCS.  As an enlisted, you'll spend several years letting other morons "lifers" order you around just because of how long they've been in the service, not because of how capable or smart they are. (or effective)

Quote from: Grok on February 19, 2004, 05:20 AM
Great but you're smart and if you want to make a difference, go as an officer.  Get your college degree then apply to OCS.  As an enlisted, you'll spend several years letting other morons "lifers" order you around just because of how long they've been in the service, not because of how capable or smart they are. (or effective)

Is that any different from the business world?

Yes -- in the business world, you can pick up and leave at any time.  Can even start a company that competes with the one you think is stupid.

Care to start an army and fight the United States?  You'll be in Levenworth so fast your head will spin.

I meant the part about how the people who have been there longer tell you what to do, regardless of who is more capable.  

My job is nice - there are only 2 programmer here, me and another student (one of my peers) - but most jobs are like that.

And I agree, we should form our own army.  Viva la revolution de vL!

Quote from: Tuberload on February 18, 2004, 07:29 PM
I am going to join the military, but only because it is what I believe, not because someone else told me to.

But perhaps you've been told what to believe in.

Quote from: Arsenic on February 19, 2004, 08:00 PM

Quote from: Tuberload on February 18, 2004, 07:29 PM
I am going to join the military, but only because it is what I believe, not because someone else told me to.

But perhaps you've been told what to believe in.

Yes, a great majority of my family has been in the military at one time or another. Most did not like it, but even the ones who liked it have not forced opinions on me. My dad was a cavalry scout in the army, and even though he tells me stories of good times, he has always told me to do what I believe in. I can't say I know what war is like from personal experience, but I do have a lot of knowledge from studying history. It's an obstacle I will have to overcome, but I don't feel that makes me a bad person. I also don't feel our soldiers are bad people, minus the actual loonies.

Quote from: Grok on February 19, 2004, 05:20 AM
Great but you're smart and if you want to make a difference, go as an officer.  Get your college degree then apply to OCS.  As an enlisted, you'll spend several years letting other morons "lifers" order you around just because of how long they've been in the service, not because of how capable or smart they are. (or effective)

First, I would like to thank you for this post. I come from a broken family, and unfortunately made a lot of poor decisions a couple of years back. I dicked around in high school and shot any academic, and sports scholarships I could have gotten. I then decided to get myself arrested multiple times. I now have to wait a period of time before I am eligible for grants. This of course leaves me with the option of student loans. From the research I have done, if I get an AA degree that makes me eligible for officer training school. I know this is not a for sure thing, but if I chose this I would be banking on the fact that I would qualify. I know physically I will not have a problem, and I scored a 72 on my ASVAB two years ago. That of course is just my reasoning behind believing I will make it, based on research. My second option would be to take a larger student loan, and get a bachelors/master degree, and as you say go in as an officer. The third option of course is wait until federal aid is available to me, and just skip the loans. Right now I would just about qualify for a paid AA degree. I am however, to impatient to wait for this so it's an option I have already thrown out. I feel like I have wasted enough of my life as it is.

As much as I may support our military, I do not want to be a part of it my whole life. My current goals are to get an AA degree in networking, and then join the military and hopefully be eligible for officer training, and be a part of a specops unit. (Marine Force Recon to be exact) From there, I plan on getting a masters degree in business. (I guess this is also assuming I will get the grants they say I will) Then I would like to open a small computer shop, and let my dad manage it so he doesn't have to work for anyone anymore. Then I would like to move to Florida, or somewhere like it, and open up a scuba diving/sky diving/extreme sport shop for myself.

I have thought about getting an IT degree instead of business, but as much as I may love computers, I do not want to chase technology, and help someone else achieve their dreams my whole life. Besides, everything I have learned so far is self-taught, and I know I can continue doing that on my own and be completely satisfied. I wouldn't mind working towards a Sun Java Cert, a MCSE, and a MCSD. I would also like that AA in networking to turn into a BA someday as well.

Quote from: Grok on February 19, 2004, 11:27 AM
Yes -- in the business world, you can pick up and leave at any time.  Can even start a company that competes with the one you think is stupid.

Care to start an army and fight the United States?  You'll be in Levenworth so fast your head will spin.

Isn't that the problem yes. Look at the freedom-loving Iraq, trying to develop their own weapons of mass destruction, just like the United States. They have just as much right to have weapons of mass destruction as you do. Well, that is, hypothetically, if they had even been developing weapons of mass destruction.

Quote from: Adron on February 20, 2004, 03:24 PM
Isn't that the problem yes. Look at the freedom-loving Iraq, trying to develop their own weapons of mass destruction, just like the United States. They have just as much right to have weapons of mass destruction as you do. Well, that is, hypothetically, if they had even been developing weapons of mass destruction.

The US created nuclear weapons in a race against the Soviet Union as a means of protection. This led to M.A.D. (Mutual Assured Destruction), and at the moment keeps major countries from nuclear war. I don't think Iraq, freedom loving or not, has any valid reasons for having weapons of mass destruction.

If a country were to nuke the US, we would nuke them back, and neither side would win. A terrorist could detonate a WMD in the US without fear of nuclear retaliation. So what's to stop them from doing it in the US or any other country for that matter?

I am not advocating WMD, but it goes back to my argument of why we must have standing armies. It's just the world we live in, and it's a sick place.

Edit: Grammar/Spelling

Quote from: Grok on February 17, 2004, 06:22 AM

Quote from: Tuberload on February 17, 2004, 02:02 AMI don't know about you, but I don't consider myself brainwashed either.

Oh?  Let's do a test.  Do you pay individual income taxes?  If so, why?  If you say it's the law, show me.  Now tell me you're not a zombie.

This is because of an obvious lack of knowledge. My job takes out what every other job has, and I don't complain unless it looks odd.

Quote from: Tuberload on February 20, 2004, 06:38 PM

Quote from: Grok on February 17, 2004, 06:22 AM

Quote from: Tuberload on February 17, 2004, 02:02 AMI don't know about you, but I don't consider myself brainwashed either.

Oh?  Let's do a test.  Do you pay individual income taxes?  If so, why?  If you say it's the law, show me.  Now tell me you're not a zombie.

This is because of an obvious lack of knowledge. My job takes out what every other job has, and I don't complain unless it looks odd.

Maybe.  But it's your money they're taking out.  Why do you not tell them to stop?  It's because you believe they must take it out, and you'll find that they too believe they must take it out.

Quote from: Grok on February 20, 2004, 09:09 PM

Quote from: Tuberload on February 20, 2004, 06:38 PM

Quote from: Grok on February 17, 2004, 06:22 AM

Quote from: Tuberload on February 17, 2004, 02:02 AMI don't know about you, but I don't consider myself brainwashed either.

Oh?  Let's do a test.  Do you pay individual income taxes?  If so, why?  If you say it's the law, show me.  Now tell me you're not a zombie.

This is because of an obvious lack of knowledge. My job takes out what every other job has, and I don't complain unless it looks odd.

Maybe.  But it's your money they're taking out.  Why do you not tell them to stop?  It's because you believe they must take it out, and you'll find that they too believe they must take it out.

No, I will honestly sit here and say that I don't know what they have legal rights to say, and I was completely unaware that I could tell them to stop.

Quote from: Tuberload on February 20, 2004, 04:50 PM
The US created nuclear weapons in a race against the Soviet Union as a means of protection. This led to M.A.D. (Mutual Assured Destruction), and at the moment keeps major countries from nuclear war. I don't think Iraq, freedom loving or not, has any valid reasons for having weapons of mass destruction.

I think Iraq has excellent reasons for having weapons of mass destruction. If you attack Iraq, they nuke the USA, and neither side wins. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Quote from: Tuberload on February 20, 2004, 04:50 PM
If a country were to nuke the US, we would nuke them back, and neither side would win. A terrorist could detonate a WMD in the US without fear of nuclear retaliation. So what's to stop them from doing it in the US or any other country for that matter?

There's nothing to stop them from that, just like there was nothing to stop you from detonating a WMD in Japan in mid 1940's without fear of nuclear retaliation?