Orwellian-Style Logic?

Negotiable · August 03, 2004, 12:38 PM

I had this thought this morning. Let's say that the US wins the war on Terrorism. Every terrorist is captured or killed. Does this mean that there will never be terrorism again? It's like in Orwell's book 1984 where they eliminate words from the language so that people will stop thinking of the concepts (like how are you supposed to have a "revolution" if there's no word for it?").

It seems to me that hunting down terrorists isn't going to do anything to eliminate the world of terrorism. Even if, like I said, we got them all, new people would be growing up independantly with the same ideals ready to fight dirty and die for their causes.

So really, is there any point to fighting terrorism the way the USA is now? It seems to me that they are going to have to eventually deal with the root causes instead of the symptoms.

Arta · August 03, 2004, 01:56 PM

I totally agree with you. We touched on this in the Bush thread but hardly anyone seems to agree with me.

quasi-modo · August 03, 2004, 02:00 PM

Bah, so you are saying we should just sit back and let them continue operate? The terrorism we are fighting now is organised. We need to get dismantle the networks now. This way terrorists cannot be as effective.

Negotiable · August 03, 2004, 02:06 PM

Arta -- That's probably what made me think of this.

peopfknight -- What's to stop new networks from forming? They need to find out why people decide to become terrorists and attack the root causes.

quasi-modo · August 03, 2004, 02:28 PM

Quote from: Negotiable on August 03, 2004, 02:06 PM
Arta -- That's probably what made me think of this.

peopfknight -- What's to stop new networks from forming? They need to find out why people decide to become terrorists and attack the root causes.

I think it has a lot to do with Islam as a whole. I do not think the fight against terrorism will ever end completely. I just thinkt his war right now is a volley to get rid of the stuff we have now. We will not need to invade countries to control it in the future hopefully.

Kp · August 03, 2004, 04:35 PM

Quote from: Negotiable on August 03, 2004, 02:06 PMpeopfknight -- They need to find out why people decide to become terrorists and attack the root causes.

Yes, but resolving the root causes won't turn back the people who have already sworn their loyalty and their lives to these causes. The existing terrorists will continue to fight until captured, killed, or reformed - that's pretty much a given. I somewhat doubt we're going to reform them, so that leaves capturing or killing. Preventing more from starting is a good idea, but I don't really want to wait until the current batch dies of old age.

Negotiable · August 03, 2004, 06:10 PM

I was thinking (again), which is probably be a bad sign. But in any case, it's a lot like normal crime. If you manage to stop every single person who steals cars today, then come back in a week, you will find more people who are stealing cars. Perhaps this is unavoidable?

Eli_1 · August 03, 2004, 06:18 PM

Brilliant. If we attack the root cause, and dismantle all vehicles, the amount of grand-theft-autos will drop significantly!
</joke>

hismajesty · August 03, 2004, 07:42 PM

Of course terrorism will never be completely eliminated, but if we crack down on it terrorists leaders are going to be more afraid to do the attack because they know their neck is on the line. Think about the number of leaders we've caught already, or even attacks we've spoiled here (for example the black Muslim who had all those guns in his car a few weeks ago who was planning to go on a sniping rage.)

quasi-modo · August 03, 2004, 08:49 PM

Quote from: hismajesty[yL] on August 03, 2004, 07:42 PM
Of course terrorism will never be completely eliminated, but if we crack down on it terrorists leaders are going to be more afraid to do the attack because they know their neck is on the line. Think about the number of leaders we've caught already, or even attacks we've spoiled here (for example the black Muslim who had all those guns in his car a few weeks ago who was planning to go on a sniping rage.)

We have been trying to crack down on the leaders though. Israel puts a missile through a hamas leader's window, the next day they have a new leader and are still organized

. I wish we could have gotten our hands on osama.

muert0 · August 03, 2004, 08:57 PM

Muslims aren't the only terrorist gorups in the world...
http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/tgpndx.htm
And how is getting Osama gonna change the fact that if one person dies another will take the leaders position.

quasi-modo · August 03, 2004, 09:02 PM

Quote from: muert0 on August 03, 2004, 08:57 PM
Muslims aren't the only terrorist gorups in the world...
http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/tgpndx.htm
And how is getting Osama gonna change the fact that if one person dies another will take the leaders position.

Muslims are not the only ones, you are correct. The oclahoma city bombing was not Islamic terrorism, yet it was still a massive attack on our soild. But Islamic terrorism does ammount to a lot of terrorism.

Oh I just think it would have been good to take him out, it may not stop the network, but just because of the effect it would have had. I see no end to terrorism in site, even if we do get the leaders and all, I would just like to know that osama is not at large anymore.

Also a side note: Many terrorist groups on that list are insurgent fighters in countries that are just trying to topple that governemnt and do not pose a threat to use or our allies (unless the country they are in is our allie) besides the fact that sometimes citizens of america that may be over there are captured for ransome or something. But those groups will probably never go away, as long as there are opprosive governments, there will be groups trying to rebel against the government. Putting molotov coctails through the windows of political officials and fireing shots from bushes at them will undoubtedly go on forever.

muert0 · August 04, 2004, 12:38 AM

QuoteAlso a side note: Many terrorist groups on that list are insurgent fighters in countries that are just trying to topple that governemnt and do not pose a threat to use or our allies (unless the country they are in is our allie) besides the fact that sometimes citizens of america that may be over there are captured for ransome or something.

They don't pose a threat unless America sticks it's nose in their business and pisses them off like we do in the middle east and everywhere else.

quasi-modo · August 04, 2004, 01:00 AM

Quote from: muert0 on August 04, 2004, 12:38 AM
QuoteAlso a side note: Many terrorist groups on that list are insurgent fighters in countries that are just trying to topple that governemnt and do not pose a threat to use or our allies (unless the country they are in is our allie) besides the fact that sometimes citizens of america that may be over there are captured for ransome or something.
They don't pose a threat unless America sticks it's nose in their business and pisses them off like we do in the middle east and everywhere else.

yep, I do not even feel like we should try to stop that, because in a lot of places they are combatting a tyranical regime. But I think the thing about islamic terrorism is, they are going to hate us no matter what. They would want us gone even if we had never been to the middle east. I am sure they may not be as militant, but I feel they would still hate us.

Arta · August 04, 2004, 12:58 PM

Quote from: peofeoknight on August 03, 2004, 02:28 PM
I think it has a lot to do with Islam as a whole.

Explain?

Orwellian-Style Logic?

Negotiable

Negotiable

Negotiable

Eli_1

hismajesty