Orwellian-Style Logic?

[Adron]

Ah, the jews are not going in the streets and killing palestinians. What news channel do you watch that shows this? The jews go after terrorist leaders, like the leader of humas, when they put a missile through his window. You see that as the jews going after the palestinians? The only time the jews kill civilians are when they run out in front of the tanks to fule palestinian hatred, like in that video that I posted.

No, they kill and terrorize, among others, civilian olive farmers.


Took me a good while of searching before I found an acceptable source for numbers...

Israel killed over 100 Palestinian children in 2003, while the Palestinians killed 21 Israeli children.

Totals for 2003 are:

 Israeli kills - 600
 Palestinian kills - 200.


So, don't talk about the palestinians without mentioning the murderous jews as well.


source

[quasi-modo]

Ah, the jews are not going in the streets and killing palestinians. What news channel do you watch that shows this? The jews go after terrorist leaders, like the leader of humas, when they put a missile through his window. You see that as the jews going after the palestinians? The only time the jews kill civilians are when they run out in front of the tanks to fule palestinian hatred, like in that video that I posted.

No, they kill and terrorize, among others, civilian olive farmers.


Took me a good while of searching before I found an acceptable source for numbers...

Israel killed over 100 Palestinian children in 2003, while the Palestinians killed 21 Israeli children.

Totals for 2003 are:

 Israeli kills - 600
 Palestinian kills - 200.


So, don't talk about the palestinians without mentioning the murderous jews as well.


source

If you had watched the video you would see how those children were killed too  


You honestly believe that israel is going out of their way to kill palestinian civilians. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? Got any conspiracy theories for us too? Israel is not trying to kill palestinians, israel is trying to kill terrorists and terrorist leaders. What you are saying israel is trying to kill palestinians flat out is not happening. If israel wanted to kill them off, they would be dead. Israel would not just mess around and put a missile through a guys window here and there if they wanted all palestinians dead.

Or maybe you are just comeing up with this stance just for the heck or argueing.

[j0k3r]

I say nuke the whole damn place. This thread has gone back and forth between "should isrealis sit back and let palestinians kill them or should the palestinians sit back and let the isrealis kill them?" They're both stupid-asshole sides. I live in Canada and I share my school with hundreds of religions without any problem, surely if kids can share a building then 2 religions can share a country?

[quasi-modo]

I say nuke the whole damn place. This thread has gone back and forth between "should isrealis sit back and let palestinians kill them or should the palestinians sit back and let the isrealis kill them?" They're both stupid-asshole sides. I live in Canada and I share my school with hundreds of religions without any problem, surely if kids can share a building then 2 religions can share a country?

They have been trying to do that for the longest time with that roadmap to peace.  Sharon has been going a long with it for the longest time and his hands are all tied up. Look, the international community (france in particular) was condeming him for killing the hammas leader. That is utter crap. If the palestinians wanted peace their would be peace, but that is not what Arafat is after. The guy was leader of the PLO for God's sake, he is not going to make peace.

My school has many ethnic groups and religions too, we all get along fine. But when they live in the states its one thing, when they are back over there it is another. They took Palestinian Kids and Israely kids to summer camps and they all played and got along fine, but when they went back to Israel, they went right back to hateing eachother. Its just the environment they are in over there I guess.

[muert0]

You're funny. You really think the jews are just being picked on? That's what your side of it is really sounding like. Look up the Israeli helicopter fleet. It's funny they have the most deadly helicopter fleet in the world yet they are just peaceful people who are being picked on.

[Adron]

You honestly believe that israel is going out of their way to kill palestinian civilians. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? Got any conspiracy theories for us too? Israel is not trying to kill palestinians, israel is trying to kill terrorists and terrorist leaders. What you are saying israel is trying to kill palestinians flat out is not happening. If israel wanted to kill them off, they would be dead. Israel would not just mess around and put a missile through a guys window here and there if they wanted all palestinians dead.

I believe that just like there are extremist Palestinians wanting to kill or terrorize jews, there are extremist jews wanting to kill or terrorize Palestinians. I consider that proven actually.

I believe that the Israeli government can't allow itself to get carried away killing palestinians or it would be pressured too hard from outside, just like the Palestinian government can't let itself get carried away killing jews.

I believe that the Israeli government punishes innocent Palestinians as revenge, and that the Palestinian armed groups punish innocent jews as revenge.


What do I base my beliefs upon? Many things... If you tell me what you base your beliefs on, I'll try to find links to my sources. A good one is that Amnesty link though. If the Israeli government wanted not to kill palestinian civilians, don't you think they would change their ways? After all, since the jews kill three times as many palestinians as the palestinians kill jews, it's impossible that each of those palestinians has actually murdered a jew. Simple math.

[cefx-]

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind. - Gandhi

[quasi-modo]

You honestly believe that israel is going out of their way to kill palestinian civilians. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? Got any conspiracy theories for us too? Israel is not trying to kill palestinians, israel is trying to kill terrorists and terrorist leaders. What you are saying israel is trying to kill palestinians flat out is not happening. If israel wanted to kill them off, they would be dead. Israel would not just mess around and put a missile through a guys window here and there if they wanted all palestinians dead.

I believe that just like there are extremist Palestinians wanting to kill or terrorize jews, there are extremist jews wanting to kill or terrorize Palestinians. I consider that proven actually.

I believe that the Israeli government can't allow itself to get carried away killing palestinians or it would be pressured too hard from outside, just like the Palestinian government can't let itself get carried away killing jews.

I believe that the Israeli government punishes innocent Palestinians as revenge, and that the Palestinian armed groups punish innocent jews as revenge.


What do I base my beliefs upon? Many things... If you tell me what you base your beliefs on, I'll try to find links to my sources. A good one is that Amnesty link though. If the Israeli government wanted not to kill palestinian civilians, don't you think they would change their ways? After all, since the jews kill three times as many palestinians as the palestinians kill jews, it's impossible that each of those palestinians has actually murdered a jew. Simple math.

Watch the video I posted already. I can tell you have not even bothered to.

[quasi-modo]

You're funny. You really think the jews are just being picked on? That's what your side of it is really sounding like. Look up the Israeli helicopter fleet. It's funny they have the most deadly helicopter fleet in the world yet they are just peaceful people who are being picked on.

They have a great air force, and its neccessity. Remember the 6 days war? Or the Yom Kippor war? They were able to fend off many invaders.

[Adron]

Watch the video I posted already. I can tell you have not even bothered to.

Hmmk, watched it. I think it didn't load the first time I saw it, and then I forgot all about it.

This video seems like a really good reason for the world to encourage Israel to make peace. Palestinian youth see no hope for good in their lives (and I tend to agree with them, until Israel changes, they can have no good lives), and are willing to take their chances with afterlife. Makes sense.

The concept of dying for the good cause is nothing new. Try a google search for "die for our country" and read about US marines, or the last words of the early Zionist military hero, Yosef Trumpeldor. Jews and Americans are ready to die for their country as well.

That whole thing seems mostly like the kind of glorification and romanticism any country uses to recruit soldiers for their armies. In a future strong palestinian state, the best way to deal with these youth would be to soak them up into the palestinian army or national defences. More order would improve the situation a lot. Those young people would be great soldiers, much better than having them as terrorists.

Just to pull out an equality like the other ones in that program - These young soldiers are like the resistance movement, and the jews are like the nazi occupants in France during wwii.


On the topic of Palestinian religious leaders using religion to motivate their people to attack Israel, what would you say brings the Israeli occupants to build settlements in Palestinian areas? Yes, this is one religion vs another religion. If the Israeli would peacefully pick up their things and leave, there would be no problem. They're a jew group in the middle of a muslim neighbourhood. Change that to white and black and you might just have the same problem. I don't doubt that militant jew settlers would gladly kill Palestinians trying to move the jews out of Jerusalem.



Do you trust this video (i.e. it being documentary and non-partial, as opposed to it being propaganda)? I would've liked it better if it was from BBC or some respectable news reporting agency, and not from a religious organization. This video even talks the regular media down, and tells people only to trust christian news. Just that there should be a good sign that this might be fishy.

Is there just one palestinian news channel? All the video capture seems to have the same logo in the corner.

They mentioned having seen religious leaders say that muslims should kill jews 18 times. They didn't say over what time period. To me, there's a big difference between seeing this repeated daily, and to see it once a year for 18 years at the yearly religious greatness memorial ceremony.

I'd love to read a fuller report on palestinian media. Is this like the abortionists vs pro-life, something that exists and can be found, and where some people advocate killing their opposition, or is it really the main 24/7 theme of all Palestinian channels?



Finally, if you're trying to use this to explain away the Palestinian deaths I mentioned before, look at this example from 2 weeks ago:

GAZA, July 26 (Reuters) - Israeli troops killed a Palestinian girl of 13 on Monday as she played soccer near her home in southern Gaza, relatives and medics said.

The soldiers had been firing to deter mortar attacks by Palestinian militants.

In a separate incident, medics said soldiers shot dead a 50-year-old Palestinian woman in the south of the territory. The army said it had fired towards a site from which militants had launched mortar and rocket fire but saw no one hit.

Medics said teenager Sara Mahmoud Zorob was shot in the chest in an outlying neighbourhood of the city of Khan Younis and died on the way to the hospital.

"She was outside playing with the other kids and then the shooting started. She was playing soccer," a cousin told Reuters. "After she got shot, the other kids started screaming."

"What did she do, a kid like this? She was just playing."

Israeli military sources said the army had received warnings of possible mortar or rocket fire on a nearby Jewish settlement and fired in the air and into the Khan Younis district as a deterrent. The army later heard reports the girl was killed.

Neighbourhood witnesses said a boy of 12 who was playing nearby and a 56-year-old man were also shot and wounded. Both were in moderate condition after being hit in the leg.

Would you say it was acceptable for the Palestinian authority to fire randomly into an Israeli city if they'd heard warnings of possible Israeli rocket fire?

The Israeli clearly show their disregard for Palestinian lives. That's second-degree murder.



What do I base my beliefs upon? Many things... If you tell me what you base your beliefs on, I'll try to find links to my sources. A good one is that Amnesty link though. If the Israeli government wanted not to kill palestinian civilians, don't you think they would change their ways? After all, since the jews kill three times as many palestinians as the palestinians kill jews, it's impossible that each of those palestinians has actually murdered a jew. Simple math.

[cefx-]

when it stops lagging

Are you on Swedish dialup, Adron?

Hehe...reminds me of zef's uber-stable and lightning fast .no dialup....

[quasi-modo]

Oh please Adron "This video is biased".  
Give me a break, like the bbc isn't biased? Like cnn is not  biased? No news is going to be un biased so quit complaining about every freaken source I post as being biased, because it gets a bit annoying, because all of your source are just as bad, but the spin is in the other direction. This guy they interviewed is from the israely media watch, which is a department in the israely government. That is part of their intelligence right there. There really are music videos like that airing on palestinian television, and soccer tournaments like that named after bombers over there. I have seen other sources in the past that say such things too. So yes I do trust this video.

Adron how do you know they were killed by israely fire? Palestinian people have killed their own and blamed it on Israely forces in the past. The Israely military says they saw no one get hit (in reguard to the old woman).

[muert0]

Who owns Israeli Media Watch? Don't you think an outside source like BBC would be less biased?

[Banana fanna fo fanna]

Who owns Israeli Media Watch? Don't you think an outside source like BBC would be less biased?

Actually, I don't.

[muert0]

Yeah. Nevermind, everyone is biased one way or another.