What do you think? I say we tighten the borders and deport the 9 million illegals that are here already.
I say we stop being hypocrits and open them.
How so?
We need to put military troops along the borders, and get rid of John Ashcroft(Sp?) and the current organization responsible for border patrol. I cannot remember which it is off the top of my head.
Allowing illegal immigrants to just freely cross are borders is just idiotic. If they want to be a part of this country they can do it legally.
http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/lawenfor/bpatrol/
I think we have enough problems taking care of the people we have...
I say we tighten the borders and stop all the people trying to come over whenever they feel like it. They are getting alot of the jobs just cause they're willing to work for low pay.
Give them the death penalty, they're not citizens, and the problem is dramatically reduced.
Quote from: Banana fanna fo fanna on October 17, 2004, 04:43 PM
How so?
Didn't we come here on a boat to find a better life?
The mexicans are doing the same thing, they are just running instead of riding, and taking minimum wage jobs as opposed to killing people for their land.
My question is why isn't anyone taking any action?
Quote from: Tuberload on October 17, 2004, 05:13 PM
We need to put military troops along the borders, and get rid of John Ashcroft(Sp?) and the current organization responsible for border patrol. I cannot remember which it is off the top of my head.
I aggree... sorta. But do not think we should be devoting the army / marines / what ever to our borders. But I do feel the borders need to be tightened. I feel that the border patrol needs more vehicles and should maybe be considered their own branch of the armed services, sort of like the coast guard. They should get more hummers, some black hawks so on and so fourth. I had a talk about a friend at work on this subject. He said even if we put Bradleys and m1 Abrams on the borders that they would not be used. But they would be a deterrent. Even if that howitzer is not getting shot, it would make people think twice about crossing. I am a bit sceptical about that. I just think that putting the actual army on the border would create some problems and that the forces should be separated. I dunno if this would still be considered putting military troops on are borders if we made a distinction.
Quote from: Forged on October 17, 2004, 05:48 PM
Quote from: Banana fanna fo fanna on October 17, 2004, 04:43 PM
How so?
Didn't we come here on a boat to find a better life?
The mexicans are doing the same thing, they are just running instead of riding, and taking minimum wage jobs as opposed to killing people for their land.
Yes but the difference is, we kicked the ass of the natives, and the Mexicans can't kick ours.
I think we just should invest in a massive camera network over the entire border and irradiate every truck's cargo.
Quote from: Banana fanna fo fanna on October 17, 2004, 08:21 PM
Quote from: Forged on October 17, 2004, 05:48 PM
Quote from: Banana fanna fo fanna on October 17, 2004, 04:43 PM
How so?
Didn't we come here on a boat to find a better life?
The mexicans are doing the same thing, they are just running instead of riding, and taking minimum wage jobs as opposed to killing people for their land.
Yes but the difference is, we kicked the ass of the natives, and the Mexicans can't kick ours.
I think we just should invest in a massive camera network over the entire border and irradiate every truck's cargo.
Which can also help us in many other areas. I would ease our prison system and hurt drug trafficing. Here is how: People who do drugs die, they are not put in jail. Those that are not dead or soon to be dead ebcause they are addicted will stop buying drugs. The demand for drugs drops sharply. The survivers of the drugs might get locked up, if they do not get cancer they might just od.
Quote from: Forged on October 17, 2004, 05:48 PM
Quote from: Banana fanna fo fanna on October 17, 2004, 04:43 PM
How so?
Didn't we come here on a boat to find a better life?
The mexicans are doing the same thing, they are just running instead of riding, and taking minimum wage jobs as opposed to killing people for their land.
What you're trying to say is that instead of doing it the legal way, they just do it anyway they want.
whats wrong with illegal immigration?
had the people on the mayflower a visa ? ;D
Quote from: Banana fanna fo fanna on October 17, 2004, 08:21 PM
Yes but the difference is, we kicked the ass of the natives, and the Mexicans can't kick ours.
Obviously they're doing something if you're getting worked up about the issue. Perhaps they took away a job from you? That's kicking your ass for me.
Quote from: Hazard on October 17, 2004, 08:59 PM
What you're trying to say is that instead of doing it the legal way, they just do it anyway they want.
Since when was coming over and taking people's land ever legal? Oh wait, it's not. Perhaps we should invent some doctrines that according to God's word allow us to take (and rape) the land.
My mom lost her job to contracts in India and so did 5000+ people at her ex-workplace(Sprint). We have tons of people lossing jobs to illegal immigration and saying well all the people who came here are immigrants isn't that great of an arguement. How many years ago was that? A lot has changed since then our country can't support it's self and people coming here illegally get to use the schools, roads, and other things paid for by our taxe dollars. Thye should have to contribute just like the rest of us.
QuotePerhaps we should invent some doctrines that according to God's word allow us to take (and rape) the land.
cough*manifest destiny*cough
QuoteMy mom lost her job to contracts in India and so did 5000+ people at her ex-workplace(Sprint).
Your mom lost her job due to her place of buisness movng, not illegal immigration.
QuoteWe have tons of people lossing jobs to illegal immigration
The jobs illegal immigrants take are hardlly jobs worth taking anyway. minimum wage jobs at wal-mart, and jobs digging ditches.
Quotesaying well all the people who came here are immigrants isn't that great of an arguement. How many years ago was that? A lot has changed since then our country can't support it's self
Sure it is a great argument, it just disproves your point so you dislike it.
Quoteand people coming here illegally get to use the schools, roads, and other things paid for by our taxe dollars. Thye should have to contribute just like the rest of us
They would be paying taxes if they were allowed to be made citizens.
Quote from: Forged on October 18, 2004, 04:59 PM
QuotePerhaps we should invent some doctrines that according to God's word allow us to take (and rape) the land.
cough*manifest destiny*cough
Not the same thing. Read a book.
Quote from: Forged on October 18, 2004, 04:59 PM
Your mom lost her job due to her place of buisness movng, not illegal immigration.
Actually, its called outsourcing. Better send the job there than to bring the immigrants here so they can mooch.
Quote from: Forged on October 18, 2004, 04:59 PM
The jobs illegal immigrants take are hardlly jobs worth taking anyway. minimum wage jobs at wal-mart, and jobs digging ditches.
Jobs none-the-less. People that have to work multiple jobs need that availability, and citizens should take precident. The fact is, this point is invalidated by the negative effects of illegal immigration.
Quote from: Forged on October 18, 2004, 04:59 PM
Sure it is a great argument, it just disproves your point so you dislike it.
Its an invalid argument. Slavery used to be legal, but the times changed. Free immigration used to be legal, but times changed.
Quote from: Forged on October 18, 2004, 04:59 PMThey would be paying taxes if they were allowed to be made citizens.
Not neccessarily. As you said yourself, they take the low-paying jobs that "nobody wants" right? What are the odds they lie above the poverty line? Then you have the issue of having to pay for all of those people claiming impoverish benefits.
Quote from: Hazard on October 18, 2004, 05:16 PM
Quote from: Forged on October 18, 2004, 04:59 PM
The jobs illegal immigrants take are hardlly jobs worth taking anyway. minimum wage jobs at wal-mart, and jobs digging ditches.
Jobs none-the-less. People that have to work multiple jobs need that availability, and citizens should take precident. The fact is, this point is invalidated by the negative effects of illegal immigration.
So I pose this question: Would you be a gardener? Would you care that people ridiculed you for being one? Would you really take those jobs they fulfill? Be honest. You wouldn't touch them.
Quote from: Hazard on October 18, 2004, 05:16 PM
Quote from: Forged on October 18, 2004, 04:59 PM
They would be paying taxes if they were allowed to be made citizens.
Not neccessarily. As you said yourself, they take the low-paying jobs that "nobody wants" right? What are the odds they lie above the poverty line? Then you have the issue of having to pay for all of those people claiming impoverish benefits.
I thought they automatically take out income tax, state taxes, social security tax, medicare tax, etc out of your pay check. That's what happens with my paycheck. So then, how are they not paying taxes if they're working legally?
Quote
Since when was coming over and taking people's land ever legal? Oh wait, it's not. Perhaps we should invent some doctrines that according to God's word allow us to take (and rape) the land.
Oh please, cut the "religious right" bullshit.
Quote
So I pose this question: Would you be a gardener? Would you care that people ridiculed you for being one? Would you really take those jobs they fulfill? Be honest. You wouldn't touch them.
There are plenty of poor people/kids/dropouts who would.
Quote from: Banana fanna fo fanna on October 18, 2004, 07:22 PM
Quote
Since when was coming over and taking people's land ever legal? Oh wait, it's not. Perhaps we should invent some doctrines that according to God's word allow us to take (and rape) the land.
Oh please, cut the "religious right" bullshit.
What are you talking about? That is what happened, it's not bullshit. Certainly if one people can do things they want, Mexican's should be able to do things the way they want?
It's different. Back then, we had imperialism. Now we poo-poo it, but these are the borders we've set up now.
Honestly, if they could take it by force, as we did with the Native Americans, it would be theirs. THAT is the difference.
Quote from: Banana fanna fo fanna on October 18, 2004, 07:38 PM
It's different. Back then, we had imperialism. Now we poo-poo it, but these are the borders we've set up now.
Honestly, if they could take it by force, as we did with the Native Americans, it would be theirs. THAT is the difference.
Well then, that is what Mexican's are doing. They are taking your jobs, they are become legal citizens, they are voting in record numbers, they are productive members of society. That is the American Dream, no?
Quote from: dxoigmn on October 18, 2004, 07:40 PM
Quote from: Banana fanna fo fanna on October 18, 2004, 07:38 PM
It's different. Back then, we had imperialism. Now we poo-poo it, but these are the borders we've set up now.
Honestly, if they could take it by force, as we did with the Native Americans, it would be theirs. THAT is the difference.
Well then, that is what Mexican's are doing. They are taking your jobs
Yes.
Quote
they are become legal citizens
No. They're hopping the border and squeezing out kids and taking advantage of lame laws which let them jump to the front of the line.
Quote
they are voting in record numbers
Voting not as an American, but as a Mexican who wants open borders.
Quote
they are productive members of society
The legal ones? Yes. The illegals...not so much.
Quote
That is the American Dream, no?
Quote from: dxoigmn on October 18, 2004, 07:18 PM
Quote from: Hazard on October 18, 2004, 05:16 PM
Quote from: Forged on October 18, 2004, 04:59 PM
The jobs illegal immigrants take are hardlly jobs worth taking anyway. minimum wage jobs at wal-mart, and jobs digging ditches.
Jobs none-the-less. People that have to work multiple jobs need that availability, and citizens should take precident. The fact is, this point is invalidated by the negative effects of illegal immigration.
So I pose this question: Would you be a gardener? Would you care that people ridiculed you for being one? Would you really take those jobs they fulfill? Be honest. You wouldn't touch them.
I would. I would be a construction worker. Every summer kids flood the job market and apply for jobs to bag groceries. It gets quit hard to find a job when you are a high school student. I remember before i had a job I had to mow peoples laws. That was my sophmore year in high school.
Quote from: dxoigmn on October 18, 2004, 07:18 PM
Quote from: Hazard on October 18, 2004, 05:16 PM
Quote from: Forged on October 18, 2004, 04:59 PM
The jobs illegal immigrants take are hardlly jobs worth taking anyway. minimum wage jobs at wal-mart, and jobs digging ditches.
Jobs none-the-less. People that have to work multiple jobs need that availability, and citizens should take precident. The fact is, this point is invalidated by the negative effects of illegal immigration.
So I pose this question: Would you be a gardener? Would you care that people ridiculed you for being one? Would you really take those jobs they fulfill? Be honest. You wouldn't touch them.
Quote from: Hazard on October 18, 2004, 05:16 PM
Quote from: Forged on October 18, 2004, 04:59 PM
They would be paying taxes if they were allowed to be made citizens.
Not neccessarily. As you said yourself, they take the low-paying jobs that "nobody wants" right? What are the odds they lie above the poverty line? Then you have the issue of having to pay for all of those people claiming impoverish benefits.
I thought they automatically take out income tax, state taxes, social security tax, medicare tax, etc out of your pay check. That's what happens with my paycheck. So then, how are they not paying taxes if they're working legally?
As a matter of fact, my summer job was working with my neighbor (your average, white, blue collar citizen) in lawn care doing the same "undesireable" work that you attribute to the work of "immigrants." Its simply not the cut and dry case. My Foreign Relation's teacher's father was the owner, operator, and worker in a lawn care and fruit picking business. He was also your average, white, blue collar American. The fact is that hard working Americans aren't often ridiculed for their line of work and if they are, they dismiss it. Its a good way to make a living. When I'd have somebody laugh at me for what I did over the summer, I pointed out that I made $9.50 an hour while the lucky among them made 6 in retail.
If you are below the poverty line, you are entitled to tax exemptions and benefits. Some of the "tax" dollars they give end up going right back to themselves. Besides, all of that doesn't apply to illegal aliens who obviously don't declare their income and it is therefore untaxable.
I'm not replying to all of this just the staement about the only jobs they take are minimum wage...
You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. I worked pipelines for a while making $9/hr with $50 perdiam with a guarented 60 hours a week.
That's $630 taxed and $350 untaxed since per diam isn't taxed. When it came to lay offs the mexicans that were working for $6 and hour still had a job...
Oh yean one more thing:
and people coming here illegally get to use the schools, roads, and other things paid for by our taxe dollars. Thye should have to contribute just like the rest of us
QuoteThey would be paying taxes if they were allowed to be made citizens.
They wouldn't be illegal immigrants then...
Quote from: muert0 on October 18, 2004, 10:41 PM
They wouldn't be illegal immigrants then...
Exactlly.
Quote from: Forged on October 19, 2004, 01:39 AM
Quote from: muert0 on October 18, 2004, 10:41 PM
They wouldn't be illegal immigrants then...
Exactlly.
Its still not an argument. The drain would overwhelm the economic gain.
Quote from: Banana fanna fo fanna on October 18, 2004, 07:42 PM
No. They're hopping the border and squeezing out kids and taking advantage of lame laws which let them jump to the front of the line.
Voting not as an American, but as a Mexican who wants open borders.
The legal ones? Yes. The illegals...not so much.
So if we gave them a chance to become citizens, then they would be productive members of society. So why don't we give them that? We need more productive members of society and if Mexican's are willing to do the labor many of American's are so unwilling to do, then let them do it. Get an education, go to college, get a better job or go to vocational school. And yes, they are border hopping and squeezing out children, that is their goal...it's not to get ahead in life so their family can have the basic neccesities. In any case, if their voting, their vote is just as good as yours...except that you can't vote.
For those of you (the < 18 year olds) that have jobs, do you actually contribute this money back to your family? And does your family actually need it? Do you help pay for rent? Do you pay for food? Do you pay for school related items? Or do you go to the mall spend it on the newest video game? Or perhaps new computer stuff? Or software? How about new clothes? My point is, just because you can't get a job as a high schooler doesn't mean jack. It means that you won't have extra spending cash when it can better go to some family that actually needs it.
I was helping my family with rent, food and paying for all of my clothes when I was 16. My mom was just starting to go to school and we wouldn't of had a plcae to live and very little to eat if I hadn't. But if you are saying only people who are under 18 work at jobs that pay minimum wage work you are wrong again. There are plenty of men and women that work these jobs that provide you with food from restaurants and make sure the shelves at the grocery stores are stocked.
Just a couple of questions for you. Do you pay for your schooling, housing , or food? How did you get your first car? Who pays your insurance?
O well I'm off to work.
Quote from: muert0 on October 19, 2004, 09:20 AM
Just a couple of questions for you. Do you pay for your schooling, housing , or food? How did you get your first car? Who pays your insurance?
I pay for my schooling, and food. I also have a full-ride scholarship (except for what I can pay) which pays for housing, tuition and other miscellaneous fees. I don't own a car, nor do I wish to own a car because I don't have the funds to pay for one. I don't have insurance except medical from the college which is payed for by my scholarship. This computer I am typing on now was payed for by the college. I am a content person with the little that I own. muert0, I understand your situation because I had to go through a lot of the same. A lot of the kids on these forums are very well off from what I've read. They have no perception of the real world because they have been sheltered nor do they understand what it is like to put your earnings towards basic necessities. It's easy to say things about a situation when you've never experienced that situation, but that is ignorant.
I fail to see why a lack of labor back in mexico stops immigrants from actually going through the steps to enter the country legally or apply for amnesty.
Quote from: dxoigmn on October 19, 2004, 07:50 AM
For those of you (the < 18 year olds) that have jobs, do you actually contribute this money back to your family? And does your family actually need it? Do you help pay for rent? Do you pay for food? Do you pay for school related items? Or do you go to the mall spend it on the newest video game? Or perhaps new computer stuff? Or software? How about new clothes? My point is, just because you can't get a job as a high schooler doesn't mean jack. It means that you won't have extra spending cash when it can better go to some family that actually needs it.
I contribute money to my family to help pay for my high school tuition. I don't know if my family needs it, but it takes the burden off of them. We do not pay rent, we are homeowners and the morgage is paid off. I buy all of my own food outside of what already exists here at home. I pay for much of my school stuff, including books. I still have spending money left over for extras.
I pay all of my car insurance, my gas, and bought my truck.
My work funds my social life, computer equipment, cell phone, and car insurance/gas/repairs/itself. My family will loan me money if needed but I pay it back. Otherwise, no, I don't contribute it back to my family unless you count the hand-me-down computer equipment they get as a result of my infrequent upgrades. ;)
Quote from: Hazard on October 19, 2004, 06:30 PM
Quote from: dxoigmn on October 19, 2004, 07:50 AM
For those of you (the < 18 year olds) that have jobs, do you actually contribute this money back to your family? And does your family actually need it? Do you help pay for rent? Do you pay for food? Do you pay for school related items? Or do you go to the mall spend it on the newest video game? Or perhaps new computer stuff? Or software? How about new clothes? My point is, just because you can't get a job as a high schooler doesn't mean jack. It means that you won't have extra spending cash when it can better go to some family that actually needs it.
I contribute money to my family to help pay for my high school tuition. I don't know if my family needs it, but it takes the burden off of them. We do not pay rent, we are homeowners and the morgage is paid off. I buy all of my own food outside of what already exists here at home. I pay for much of my school stuff, including books. I still have spending money left over for extras.
high school tuition. Elaborate more.
My tuition to go to school is about 10 grand a year, whats to elaborate?