Re: Open source C++ Bot

[Warrior]

Yeah, I'm back to C#. I'm much further with it in C# anyways but I just thought I'd try out C++ to learn it a little.

It's like going from a Supermodel to a Hooker. C++ is a nasty language, only the weak use it.

Are you weak?

Most games are coded in C/C++ so I wouldn't call it weak.

Where did I state it was a weak language? I state it's users are weak. Learn to read before attempting to reply please.

Additionally, games being written in C/C++ do not detach from the fact that it's just a horrible language. Both of them.

[brew]

Additionally, games being written in C/C++ do not detach from the fact that it's just a horrible language. Both of them.

I'm sorry, you're wrong. All professional programs are made in C/++, assembly, and/or *sometimes* C# (because they want to be hip, MS is pushing C# so therefore they use it and become tools in the process). Anything else made with a different language is a joke. C is intended for people who know what they're doing. Professional software development companies know what they're doing. OOP users, for the most part, don't.

[Barabajagal]

http://www.istartedsomething.com/20070809/teched-day-2-lolcode/

[brew]

http://www.istartedsomething.com/20070809/teched-day-2-lolcode/

LOLCode is an exception.
CAN HAS SUM LOLULARCODE?
I'm pretty sure Leaky is going to piss his pants when he sees that link

[MyndFyre]

Additionally, games being written in C/C++ do not detach from the fact that it's just a horrible language. Both of them.

I'm sorry, you're wrong. All professional programs are made in C/++, assembly, and/or *sometimes* C# (because they want to be hip, MS is pushing C# so therefore they use it and become tools in the process). Anything else made with a different language is a joke. C is intended for people who know what they're doing. Professional software development companies know what they're doing. OOP users, for the most part, don't.

brew, your continued insistence that you'll never learn C# puts you at a deficiency to argue this point.  C# isn't just "hip" - it's got a lot of development "best practices" that are not only included, but enforced by the compiler, resulting in greater development efficiency.  But, it can also destroy you if you don't "know what [you're] doing."

World of Warcraft is written in very effective, object-oriented C++.  This is very clear from the disassembly of the game.  Are you going to say that Blizzard is not a "professional software development company" since they're OOP users, and therefore don't know (for the most part) what they're doing?

The fact is, OOP is the best software development practice we know to currently exist in terms of business models.  It incorporates human factors (objects can be conceptualized by humans, leading to abstraction, a key necessity for heuristics), defines relationships among data, and improves software maintainability when used correctly.

[Warrior]

Additionally, games being written in C/C++ do not detach from the fact that it's just a horrible language. Both of them.

I'm sorry, you're wrong. All professional programs are made in C/++, assembly, and/or *sometimes* C# (because they want to be hip, MS is pushing C# so therefore they use it and become tools in the process). Anything else made with a different language is a joke. C is intended for people who know what they're doing. Professional software development companies know what they're doing. OOP users, for the most part, don't.

You're so retarded on so many levels it's amazing.

I mean honestly, I've tried to sit in the sidelines and remain neutral about your overwhelming stupidity but it's gotten too hard.

Please only respond to anything I say unless you have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

[Krush[LM]]

Yeah, I'm back to C#. I'm much further with it in C# anyways but I just thought I'd try out C++ to learn it a little.

It's like going from a Supermodel to a Hooker. C++ is a nasty language, only the weak use it.

Are you weak?

Most games are coded in C/C++ so I wouldn't call it weak.

Where did I state it was a weak language? I state it's users are weak. Learn to read before attempting to reply please.

Additionally, games being written in C/C++ do not detach from the fact that it's just a horrible language. Both of them.

Well I thought the comment "C++ is a nasty language, only the weak use it." was implying the code and the user of it are weak.

Anyways we shouldn't get off topic, all I was merely stating is that a majority games (pc, console) are made with C/C++. I know for a fact all DS games are coded in that and if they use C++ at all it's "Limited C++" since it can't support a lot of the languages features.

[brew]

Additionally, games being written in C/C++ do not detach from the fact that it's just a horrible language. Both of them.

I'm sorry, you're wrong. All professional programs are made in C/++, assembly, and/or *sometimes* C# (because they want to be hip, MS is pushing C# so therefore they use it and become tools in the process). Anything else made with a different language is a joke. C is intended for people who know what they're doing. Professional software development companies know what they're doing. OOP users, for the most part, don't.

You're so retarded on so many levels it's amazing.

I mean honestly, I've tried to sit in the sidelines and remain neutral about your overwhelming stupidity but it's gotten too hard.

Please only respond to anything I say unless you have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

I'm sorry Warrior. You are wrong. You have failed on so many levels. How is somebody retarded for not going along with your opinion? If C/C++ is as bad as you say it is, why do people use it? I really don't get your logic sometimes. Admit it, C > C#. Sorry kiddo, I'm not the kinda guy who would jump on the .NET bandwagon because it's made by microsoft, and it's new. I don't like OOP, ok. :/
Myndfyre: You do present a valid point. Sure, Blizzard knows what they're doing, and they do a good job using OOP (i guess) but in my opinion people would be so much more productive using C. So many people using anything .NET and/or java are complete retards, it's hard to not take notice of the coorelation between the two. Sure, if someone is good with OOP they can make great programs, just as good if not better then C. But think about it, when's the last time anyone in the Java forum said "pointer", or "address" and not "class". Doesn't it get annoying? It bugs me out, all these kids thinking they are the shit because they know some OO language that compiles to what isn't nearly close to what actually happens in the computer. They're only good for high-level applications, so while they're making some useless turbo-oo program, us C coders could create the .NET architecture they love oh-so-much, not to mention entire the OS itself. Please. Name one actually IMPORTANT thing made with .NET. Name ONE kernel made with an OO language. Hard, huh? k

EDIT **
Krush, you shouldn't get too upset over Warrior's comments. He's just trolling like his usual self
I'm sure he isn't stupid enough to actually believe that C# is superior.

[Warrior]

How is somebody retarded for not going along with your opinion? If C/C++ is as bad as you say it is, why do people use it?

I'd be willing to theorize that it's because .NET, and it's entire mindset is a fairly new concept. Something that's probably over your head though, I wouldn't want to confuse you.

Admit it, C > C#. Sorry kiddo, I'm not the kinda guy who would jump on the .NET bandwagon because it's made by microsoft, and it's new. I don't like OOP, ok. :/

You're also not the kind of person who would write any sort of meaningful code. You're going to be swimming in a virtual pool of half assed attempts at programs, maybe a few gems here and there but overall you're going down the road to perpetual failure.

You should be hoping I rub off on you.

but in my opinion people would be so much more productive using C.

Why? What about C makes people more productive? Let's see some reasons brew. I doubt you even know that language well enough to adequately defend it.

But think about it, when's the last time anyone in the Java forum said "pointer", or "address" and not "class". Doesn't it get annoying? It bugs me out, all these kids thinking they are the shit because they know some OO language that compiles to what isn't nearly close to what actually happens in the computer.

You talk a lot but say very little. Java and C# have evolved passed the need to reference such stone-age terms like pointers. Sure, the functionality is there and it is used when appropriate but it doesn't change the fact that it's a potentially dangerous area of programming and is best avoided when it yields marginal results compared to some of the managed code offerings.

They're only good for high-level applications, so while they're making some useless turbo-oo program, us C coders could create the .NET architecture they love oh-so-much, not to mention entire the OS itself. Please. Name one actually IMPORTANT thing made with .NET. Name ONE kernel made with an OO language. Hard, huh? k

The Singularity Kernel was written by Microsoft Research in C#. JNode is a Java Operating System. Hell, through my research I've even found kernels written in D.

C++ is not very hard to use when writing a kernel, you just need to adequately re implement the relevant parts of the runtime.

I'm sure you know next to nothing about Operating System Development, or low level programming in general so you bringing this up is pretty irrelevant.

[MyndFyre]

but in my opinion people would be so much more productive using C.

Do you have any numbers to back this up?

When creating large software systems, the more that we can hide the details of the low-level implementation, the better.  That's why we create libraries, why we don't reimplement things like strcmp every time we write new software, and and that's why languages are evolving to hide these details from the users.

Where is the productivity difference between:

Code Select Expand


if (strcmp(&szUserNameIn, &userRef) == 0)
and
if (string.Compare(usernameIn, userRef) == 0)

or

typedef struct tagPACKET_HEADER
{
  unsigned char magic;
  unsigned char id;
  unsigned short length;
} PACKET_HEADER, *PPACKET_HEADER;

and

public struct PacketHeader
{
  public byte Magic;
  public byte ID;
  public ushort Length;
}


So many people using anything .NET and/or java are complete retards, it's hard to not take notice of the coorelation between the two.

Arguably, you could say this about pretty much any language.

Sure, if someone is good with OOP they can make great programs, just as good if not better then C.

And someone who is not skilled in OOP can make clusterfuck programs. 

But think about it, when's the last time anyone in the Java forum said "pointer", or "address" and not "class".

Actually, Java has a "NullPointerException" which is generated whenever an object reference is null.  Incidentally, most things dealt with in Java are objects, not classes.

Doesn't it get annoying? It bugs me out, all these kids thinking they are the shit because they know some OO language that compiles to what isn't nearly close to what actually happens in the computer.

It's also annoying when I see kids who think they're the shit for knowing low-level languages.  But you don't see me filibustering about it.... 

They're only good for high-level applications, so while they're making some useless turbo-oo program, us C coders could create the .NET architecture they love oh-so-much, not to mention entire the OS itself.

Perhaps.  But while you're spending countless man-hours reimplementing the OS and the .NET Framework and the Java runtime, I'll have made (by myself) 10-15 business-centric applications.

Please. Name one actually IMPORTANT thing made with .NET. Name ONE kernel made with an OO language. Hard, huh?

I suppose it depends on how you define "important."  My company is a .NET shop, and we generated around US$4mil in revenue this year for a company of 30 (not bad, $133k per employee in revenue) creating web applications for clients who all thought that what we were making for them was important enough to justify that kind of money.

As for kernels, are you aware that Windows is an object-oriented OS?  A core component of the kernel is called the "object manager."  When you're working with a HANDLE in C, what you're actually working with is a reference to a pointer to an object inside the object manager.  DirectX is an object-oriented framework supported by hardware directly.

C was chosen as the primary implementation language for Windows because it is accessible from many other runtimes; it's low-level enough to interface with hardware without too much difficulty, but it's also fairly easy to write other languages in such a way so as to interact with C without much trouble.  The fact that in C# I can write:

Code Select Expand


[DllImport("user32.dll")]
public static extern bool EnumChildWindows(
  IntPtr hwndParent,
  EnumChildProc lpEnumFunc,
  IntPtr lParam);

public delegate bool EnumChildProc(IntPtr hWnd, IntPtr lParam);

to mirror the equivalent Windows API and then call the function precisely as I would if I were writing C is a testament to this flexibility and the correctness of this design decision by the Windows engineers.

[brew]

How is somebody retarded for not going along with your opinion? If C/C++ is as bad as you say it is, why do people use it?

I'd be willing to theorize that it's because .NET, and it's entire mindset is a fairly new concept. Something that's probably over your head though, I wouldn't want to confuse you.

So that means, people all really do love OO deep down inside and they'd rather use that then the kind of programming that's been around and accepted for over 50 years? Of course, .NET is so-over my head. That's why it seals off people from using "dangerous" features, such as pointers. Amirite?

Admit it, C > C#. Sorry kiddo, I'm not the kinda guy who would jump on the .NET bandwagon because it's made by microsoft, and it's new. I don't like OOP, ok. :/

You're also not the kind of person who would write any sort of meaningful code. You're going to be swimming in a virtual pool of half assed attempts at programs, maybe a few gems here and there but overall you're going down the road to perpetual failure.

You should be hoping I rub off on you.

Really? Did you ever see any of my work? Could you really say that about my code? How about you, Warrior. To be completely 100% honest, i've NEVER seen anything from you. Ever. You should be hoping you realize your huge mistake in this post and start trying to become a useful programmer. Actually, with that post of yours, it doesn't seem like programming is your nitche. Perhaps you should look into becoming a toilet scrubber

but in my opinion people would be so much more productive using C.

Why? What about C makes people more productive? Let's see some reasons brew. I doubt you even know that language well enough to adequately defend it.

Why C makes people more productive: (your question)
•They learn how to not buy into that OO bullshit
•They learn how to use common sense
•They learn low level computer internals

-What do they do with all this knowledge?
•End up working for a reputable software company, and end up making something useful

Why C is more productive: (my statement)
•Execution speed
•Smaller, faster code
•Memory usage

•Easier to read
•Faster to write
•Isn't heavily typed
•Pointers
•Takes less effort to create programs
•No gay classes, templates, etc, bullshit that wastes time
•Doesn't take extra shit to load namespaces (whatever tf they are), instances of classes, etc.
•Note: All of microsoft's core libraries are made with C

But think about it, when's the last time anyone in the Java forum said "pointer", or "address" and not "class". Doesn't it get annoying? It bugs me out, all these kids thinking they are the shit because they know some OO language that compiles to what isn't nearly close to what actually happens in the computer.

You talk a lot but say very little. Java and C# have evolved passed the need to reference such stone-age terms like pointers. Sure, the functionality is there and it is used when appropriate but it doesn't change the fact that it's a potentially dangerous area of programming and is best avoided when it yields marginal results compared to some of the managed code offerings.

Oh hyyy, i'm Warrior, i wonder what a pointer is? and wtf is an interrupt? i wonder how that RAM thingie in my computer is used, and how does my compooter werk with it?
Bah. I wouldn't have to know any of that. It's all ancient. Really, that doesn't concern me at all. I'm sure computers will continue to evolve without using low level langauges. I mean, what can't .NET do that C can do!?! *starts listing*

They're only good for high-level applications, so while they're making some useless turbo-oo program, us C coders could create the .NET architecture they love oh-so-much, not to mention entire the OS itself. Please. Name one actually IMPORTANT thing made with .NET. Name ONE kernel made with an OO language. Hard, huh? k

The Singularity Kernel was written by Microsoft Research in C#. JNode is a Java Operating System. Hell, through my research I've even found kernels written in D.

C++ is not very hard to use when writing a kernel, you just need to adequately re implement the relevant parts of the runtime.

I'm sure you know next to nothing about Operating System Development, or low level programming in general so you bringing this up is pretty irrelevant.

Singularity Kernel: Well done, MS. I've never heard of it up until this point. I wonder how it's doing without that .NET architecture runtime crap?
JNode OS -- Probably uses 3gb of ram to idle (see: java's omfg-everything-is-an-object-insane-ram-usage) and slow as your head (interpreted)

uh..

<Warrior[x86]> First off, both C/C++ are unmanaged. This means you have less control over the programs execution

ok

Mynd: You make a good point. It's all the programmer's preferance. So maybe you can make some good stuff with OOP; I wouldn't like it. The end user who doesn't know the difference would though reguardless of what is used. As for the productivity difference question: it takes 6 less keystrokes And the structs: You don't need to have those two aliases... and i prefer to specify my types explicitly so it does exactly what I want it to do.

So I may be wrong about java's classes/objects, it doesn't make a difference to me. It's still oop that i hate equally :] And I do know that Windows is an object oriented OS-- perhaps that's why it's so unstable. I was refering to unix/linux when I said that.

[Hell-Lord]

•Easier to read

•Takes less effort to create programs

Jokes right?

[Warrior]

So that means, people all really do love OO deep down inside and they'd rather use that then the kind of programming that's been around and accepted for over 50 years? Of course, .NET is so-over my head. That's why it seals off people from using "dangerous" features, such as pointers. Amirite?

Jesus brew, the very language you're propping up C++ is an object oriented language. I mean, do I really have to go on from there?

Really? Did you ever see any of my work? Could you really say that about my code? How about you, Warrior. To be completely 100% honest, i've NEVER seen anything from you. Ever. You should be hoping you realize your huge mistake in this post and start trying to become a useful programmer. Actually, with that post of yours, it doesn't seem like programming is your nitche. Perhaps you should look into becoming a toilet scrubber

Lol.

•They learn how to not buy into that OO bullshit
•They learn how to use common sense
•They learn low level computer internals

-What do they do with all this knowledge?
•End up working for a reputable software company, and end up making something useful

I'm sure there are tens.(that's it tens) of companies willing to hire someone who does not use an Object Oriented programming model.

Why C is more productive: (my statement)
•Execution speed
•Smaller, faster code
•Memory usage

All of these are when there is an ideal programmer present. Additionally, we're in the age of quad-core processors man. This argument doesn't have a leg to stand on anymore.

•Easier to read
•Faster to write

Subjective, subjective

•Isn't heavily typed

Don't press so hard.

•Pointers

Present in C#.

•Takes less effort to create programs

Lie.

•No gay classes, templates, etc, bullshit that wastes time
•Doesn't take extra shit to load namespaces (whatever tf they are), instances of classes, etc.
•Note: All of microsoft's core libraries are made with C

Why do you continue to post when you have no idea "(whatever tf they are)", that's laughable.

Oh hyyy, i'm Warrior, i wonder what a pointer is? and wtf is an interrupt? i wonder how that RAM thingie in my computer is used, and how does my compooter werk with it?
Bah. I wouldn't have to know any of that. It's all ancient. Really, that doesn't concern me at all. I'm sure computers will continue to evolve without using low level langauges. I mean, what can't .NET do that C can do!?! *starts listing*

Yet, I'm sure I am infinitely more knowledgeable than you in low level systems programming. You're so barking up the wrong tree.

Singularity Kernel: Well done, MS. I've never heard of it up until this point. I wonder how it's doing without that .NET architecture runtime crap?

What? Singularity has a low level implementation of the runtime(in a nutshell). Can you post something coherent?

JNode OS -- Probably uses 3gb of ram to idle (see: java's omfg-everything-is-an-object-insane-ram-usage) and slow as your head (interpreted)

You do know Java is JIT'ed correct? Of course you don't, you're brew.

<Warrior[x86]> First off, both C/C++ are unmanaged. This means you have less control over the programs execution

Are you denying this?
Are you denying the fact that you can access information about virtually anything of a managed program?

Perhaps you should read up on reflection

It's good to know you and the useless troll devcode tried to come up with something cute, but it falls flat in light of my greatness.

[brew]

•Easier to read

•Takes less effort to create programs

Jokes right?

No. Not a joke. Those two statements are subjective though, so you can take it for fact or fiction. It doesn't really matter to me. I prefer C's syntax anyday over others

Jesus brew, the very language you're propping up C++ is an object oriented language. I mean, do I really have to go on from there?

I am propping up C. Sure, I code in C++, I try to stay 100km away from anything object oriented at all times.

I'm sure there are tens.(that's it tens) of companies willing to hire someone who does not use an Object Oriented programming model.

Tens of thousands*

All of these are when there is an ideal programmer present. Additionally, we're in the age of quad-core processors man. This argument doesn't have a leg to stand on anymore.

Quad core 64 bit processors, 4 GB of ram, etc all serve one purpose: make more resources for people to suck down like cum
Don't you get it? Don't you see the cycle? Hardware companies make a new better product, software companies find a way to fill them. So on, so forth. Your computer is obsolete in about 2 years. Sad, isn't it? Perhaps it's sort of a mutual agreement to end up with more profits (omg, it's called the economy)

•Isn't heavily typed

Don't press so hard.

I actually giggled while reading that.
Heh. Don't you ever find types annoying? I do.

Yet, I'm sure I am infinitely more knowledgeable than you in low level systems programming. You're so barking up the wrong tree.

I'm completely sure about that.

Are you denying this?

yes
C++ can create fully managed code. Using OOP, that is. I don't like it, but it's just there.
A truly smart programmer wouldn't let it become unmanaged. Why would a person need OO to manage code?

It's good to know you and the useless troll devcode tried to come up with something cute, but it falls flat in light of my greatness.

Every dumb thing you say makes you look that more stupid
Current stupid-ness points: Over 0xFFFFFFFF

[Warrior]

•Easier to read

•Takes less effort to create programs

Jokes right?

No. Not a joke. Those two statements are subjective though, so you can take it for fact or fiction. It doesn't really matter to me. I prefer C's syntax anyday over others

Keep trying brew.
It's a FACT I can be more productive on C# than on C/C++.

The functionality is present. It's easy to harness the power of C#, and considering you blast it for it being high-level and it's ease of use you support my argument.