BnetDocs: Redux?

[Joe[x86]]

Has Arta stated that this is the new official BnetDocs? Until he officially says that, you should stop advertising it as official, and from what I've seen, he hasn't.

[Don Cullen]

x86] link=topic=17003.msg172239#msg172239 date=1188759205]
Has Arta stated that this is the new official BnetDocs? Until he officially says that, you should stop advertising it as official, and from what I've seen, he hasn't.

official

adjective
1.    having official authority or sanction; "official permission"; "an official representative" [ant: unofficial]
2.    of or relating to an office; "official privileges"
3.    verified officially; "the election returns are now official"
4.    conforming to set usage, procedure, or discipline; "in prescribed order"
5.    (of a church) given official status as a national or state institution

noun
1.    a worker who holds or is invested with an office
2.    someone who administers the rules of a game or sport; "the golfer asked for an official who could give him a ruling"

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

Arta does not decide which version of Battle.net Documentation website is official. Nor do I. The only person/organization that could even deign to make a particular website THE official site is Blizzard. And they have made no such move in that retrospect.

Since Arta's version of BNETDocs has been down for quite a long time, and what mirrors exist of it are extremely crippled versions, I even saw a wiki version of it, and that one didn't quite make it. The people were asking for alternatives.

Since Battle.net is copyrighted to, owned by, and operated by Blizzard:

Battle.net®
©1996 - 2002 Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. All rights reserved. Battle.net and Blizzard Entertainment are trademarks or registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. in the U.S. and/or other countries.

BNETDocs has never been, per se, authorized to be THE official BNETDocs. BNETDocs Redux has not been authorized either in that aspect. The community chooses for themselves which version they prefer. I merely offer a viable alternative. I gave full credit to Arta:

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=legalism

BNETDocs©, BNETDocs Redux©, The Demented Minds©
The original BNETDocs site is copyrighted to Arta. BNETDocs Redux is copyrighted to the Demented Minds, and to Don Cullen AKA Kyro.

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=credits

BNETDocs: Redux software written & maintained by Don Cullen AKA Kyro.

Initial BNETDocs content compiled by Arta and Skywing.

Any packet generator will include the following:
(Example: http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=generatecode&gid=all&lang=vb)

' PacketID Constants for Visual Basic 6.0
' Generated by BNETDocs: Redux on September 3, 2007
' BNETDocs: Redux software written by Don Cullen AKA Kyro
' Original BNETDocs content compiled by Arta & Skywing

EVERY page ANYONE accesses, regardless of which page the viewer is on, has a footer containing the following:

Site scripts and design copyrights reserved to Don Cullen.
Contents copyrighted to Blizzard and their parent corporation, Vivendi.
Main credits for contents goes to Arta. View the rest of credits.
Demented Minds copyrights reserved to Don Cullen 2003-present.
Copyright infringements will be prosecuted to the fullest extent allowable by law.
Please view our legal disclaimer and terms of service.

As you can see, I went to great lengths to ensure that Arta received full credit as per due.

http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=legalism

BNETDocs Redux is copyrighted under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 License. Creative Commons License

As you can see, the particular license BNETDocs Redux is currently using ensures two things:

1. That the content/data cannot be copied and sold for profit, thereby adhering to Blizzard's TOS.
2. That all content/data are public domain and that everybody is welcome to copy, modify, use, etc.

For more information on the license:
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

To summarize, what I'm saying is basically:

1. Since only Blizzard can authorize any specific version of Battle.net documentation site to be "official", and has not yet done so, there is NO official version out there. Versions exist, but they're simply versions. Whether the community prefers a specific version over another is entirely up to the community. BNETDocs is the original. That being said, it is still a version, and also obsolete. It as of now is inaccessible, has been for quite a long time. I never claimed BNETDocs Redux to be the original, BNETDocs Redux is an alternative version that intends to be around for the long haul.

2. As shown by the site's CC license, the site intends to ensure the content/data stays noncommerical and in the public domain where it belongs. In other words, the content/data belongs to the community, and it is ultimately their choice what to make of it.

If the community decides they'd rather make use of crippled copies of the original BNETDocs, hoping the original BNETDocs will eventually come back online, that's their choice. If the original BNETDocs comes back online, kudos to Arta, I'll fully support his efforts to bring it back. If he requests my assistance, I'd be more than willing to assist him. But regardless of what happens now, and in the future, BNETDocs Redux is around for the long haul, whether or not the original comes back. I also believe in excellent uptime, so there should be no downtime as I'm paying quite considerably for the services.

What I'm about to state is entirely my own belief, and not the community's; if they share in the belief, then more power to 'em. I believe the original BNETDocs project has been abandoned by the creator, that at no point in the future will the creator resurrect the project. If I'm mistaken, I would openly welcome Arta to correct me. I'd be quite happy to hear he hasn't abandoned the project, and intends on bringing it back. Until then, the original BNETDocs, in its abandonment and the website's current inaccessible state, has been rendered obsolete, and useless. What copies that exist out there are crippled in their interactiveness-- they're basically read only. No interactiveness or anything of the like whatsoever. The only other viable version that I know of is the BNETDocs wiki (not sure who it was hosted by), and that seems to be offline. If the community decides they prefer those versions over BNETDocs Redux, again, that is their choice.

To conclude, I have never at any point made the claim nor advertised that BNETDocs Redux is THE official BNETDocs, and would never aspire to make the claim, especially all the more so since there is NO official BNETDocs, and will never be unless Blizzard decides otherwise as per within their authority. Arta would not be ever able to make that claim either, not without Blizzard's explicit authorization.

[Spht]

I think the issue here as I see it is that you're calling your project "BnetDocs."  Now, this isn't a registered trademark as far as I'm aware, but it is generally frown upon in any online community to use the names of other well-established projects for your own projects.  It just causes confusion.  So I think it's in everyone's best interest that you change the name, or keep it if Arta says it's fine (since he came up with the name in the first place)

[Don Cullen]

Spht, JoeTheOdd, I spoke to Arta via email. I hope his response will be enough to put your concerns to rest.

Don,

Thanks for your email. I appreciate you getting in touch -- sorry for
not replying to your first message; I should have found the time.

You have my support. BnetDocs isn't dead persay but I don't seem to have
found the time to deal with it, so I suppose it is in practise. [...] I
have a lot of affection for BnetDocs and I'd like to remain involved in
it, but obviously, I don't have the time to give it my all. It would be
a disservice to the community not to support someone else's efforts to
fill the void.

[...]

Do let me know your thoughts. In any event, yes, you have my
endorsement. Feel free to put Joe's mind at ease 

Thanks again for getting in touch.

Harry/Arta

In response to JoeTheOdd's comment, BNETDocs Redux now has Arta's full endorsement to be a replacement for the original BNETDocs. While I stand by my belief there can be no "THE official BNETDocs" since that claim can only be made with Blizzard's approval, that's pretty much as close to "official" as BNETDocs Redux can get. Hope that satisfies your concerns.

In response to Spht's comment, since BNETDocs Redux now has Arta's full endorsement, BNETDocs Redux will not be changing its name.

In any case, I hope this puts any and all concerns to rest. 

The parts snipped out [...] were snipped out by me, mainly because they have to do with the surprise both Arta and I have for the BNETDev community. Arta has some very cool ideas I think you all will appreciate. Look forward to be seeing some very cool changes in BNETDocs Redux thanks to Arta. 

[Edit: fixed typos]

[rabbit]

The parts snipped out [...] were snipped out by me, mainly because they have to do with the surprise both Arta and I have for the BNETDev community. Arta has some very cool ideas I think you all will appreciate. Look forward to be seeing some very cool changes in BNETDocs Redux thanks to Arta. 

Is it cookies?

[Barabajagal]

[UserLoser]

You calls yours BnetDocs and it says Arta administrates it...but I doubt he does.  This is confusing.

[Newby]

You calls yours BnetDocs and it says Arta administrates it...but I doubt he does.

Where does it say Arta administrates the new BnetDocs? I must have missed something.

[Don Cullen]

You calls yours BnetDocs and it says Arta administrates it...but I doubt he does.  This is confusing.

He doesn't actively administrate it. He does have administrative abilities however if should he ever desire to administrate it. Arta also has stated he desires to continue his involvement, however limited it may be.

Where does it say Arta administrates the new BnetDocs? I must have missed something.

He's referring to the credits. Here's link:
http://bnetdocs.dementedminds.net/?op=credits

[Newby]

Ahh. I see. My mistake.

EDIT -- I'm curious, I remember certain individuals speaking of "hidden" information on Arta's BnetDocs. i.e. stuff that only approved people could view. The only reason I remember this is because at a point I wanted access to it.

Doesn't this defeat the point of BnetDocs and sharing all this information with the public? Does this section exist in the new one?

[UserLoser]

Ahh. I see. My mistake.

EDIT -- I'm curious, I remember certain individuals speaking of "hidden" information on Arta's BnetDocs. i.e. stuff that only approved people could view. The only reason I remember this is because at a point I wanted access to it.

Doesn't this defeat the point of BnetDocs and sharing all this information with the public? Does this section exist in the new one?

Stuff that can harm public gaming, BotNet administration stuff, Cd Key stuff, uhh can't think of anything else in general. How many times have stuff been released and turned hazordous? i.e. floodbot source codes

[Barabajagal]

CDKey stuff hasn't been publicly released?

EDIT: or do you mean generating keys, not hashing them?

[Arta]

I've only just noticed this post! I guess I should check the forums more often.

Anyway. I have been reticent in not getting BnetDocs back up in a timely fashion. Don has obviously put a lot of work into Redux and the fact that he has spent his time on it and given due credit places him leagues above other people who have ripped the site off as their own. It has my support. I'm looking forward to working with Don to make BnetDocs better -- something I've wanted to do for a *long* time but have lacked the time to do properly. Some of you will remember my BnetDocs v2 post and will undoubtedly get the point. I'm looking forward to working with Don to make BnetDocs better and more reliable!

With regard to "hidden" material: I have addressed this point before but I will do so again here, comprehensively, and hopefully, finally. Way back when in ye olde times of yore when BnetDocs started, there was indeed hidden material on it. Essentially, there were a couple of messages that vL members could see, but that others couldn't. Seriously: it was never more than a few, and there were no uber-juicy-secrets. This policy was in keeping with the prevailing attitude of the time: that people should figure stuff out for themselves. It was always my position that this was broadly a good idea, but that enough information should be public for people to be able to make a decent start. That was the original purpose of BnetDocs. With that in mind, I'm sure most of you will understand the reasons for keeping some things private. There was never anything there that an intelligent, determined person couldn't have figured out.

Over time, the community evolved. More people became interested in the subject. The general attitude of bot developers swayed away from reverse engineering, and toward implementing better functionality for Battle.net users. This changed seemed, and seems, natural to me, and BnetDocs' policy changed with it: the hidden material has long ago been removed, or published: removed in the case where the original contributor requested, and published otherwise. The only material that was "hidden" on BnetDocs when it went offline was material with "draft" status: that is, a collection of random odds and ends; observations that were neither reliable nor, taken alone, useful. My feeling was that documentation should be authoritative. Draft material did not meet that standard.

Seriously: no one was missing out on anything cool. This forum contains a lot more material that could be considered "draft" than BnetDocs ever did.

Anyway. As Don said: I have some ideas about where I'd like BnetDocs to go. I hope we can make them a reality.

[rabbit]

But seriously....is it cookies?

Anyway, I really hope Redux turns out well.  I remember trying to make an updated BnetDocs once, and I remember it being a whole crapload of work.  Good work

[Barabajagal]

"If this is indeed the will of the council... then Gondor shall see it done."

* Andy signs up and gets ready to fix corrections!

Speaking of which, how does one become an editor?