Conservatives

[Rule]

I think what Arta was mentioning was that it's impossible for us to know for sure whether they were all guilty (those sentenced to death) or not; not whether it was investigated and proven.

Which is completely irrelevant because we shouldn't change our laws based on speculation but on fact.

.  Isn't that somewhat counter to what you've been arguing in this thread the whole time?

I believe MyndFyre is only going with the "kill black babies" thing to show Shadow that it doesnt make sense to do that.

I was talking about abortion; it's not a fact that aborting a fertilized egg is morally wrong.

[CrAz3D]

It isnt fact either way, thats why we go with majority opinion

[Rule]

It isnt fact either way, thats why we go with majority opinion

Which is completely irrelevant because we shouldn't change our laws based on speculation but on fact.

[CrAz3D]

It isnt fact either way, thats why we go with majority opinion

Which is completely irrelevant because we shouldn't change our laws based on speculation but on fact.

But what do you go off of if there is no concrete fact?

[rabbit]

That's not always the case.  There have been several people found innocent after being put to death

not once has that happened in US history...look, you wont find it.

Salem Witch Trials.

[CrAz3D]

That's not always the case.  There have been several people found innocent after being put to death

not once has that happened in US history...look, you wont find it.

Salem Witch Trials.

I corrected myself in my nexty post about that

There has been a big execution reform since then, what 1972?...anyways, thats what I meant

[DeuceNQuota]

That's not always the case.  There have been several people found innocent after being put to death

not once has that happened in US history...look, you wont find it.

Salem Witch Trials.

The Salem witch trials occured between 1692 and 1693, 84 years before the United States existed.

[rabbit]

The colonization of the North American continent, specifically the 13 founding colonies, is a pretty big portion of US History.  You may want to pick up a textbook sometime.

Though it's not trial-by-jury, lynch mobs sentenced a lot of people to the death penalty throughout US history.

[Stealth]

Though it's not trial-by-jury, lynch mobs sentenced a lot of people to the death penalty throughout US history.

I don't understand -- our current system IS trial-by-jury, not mad witch hunts, so why are the Salem Witch Trials relevant at all?

[Grok]

Because they want to go way way out on a limb and stretch facts so that it's part of United States history; even though it wasn't, so they can say people were proven to be innocent after receiving the death penalty.

So I get to ask in an equally far stretch, how many of those were proven to be innocent after their executions?

We're talking about since the death penalty was resumed in what, 1970?  Since that time no person in the United States has been executed and later proven to be innocent.

[CrAz3D]

Because they want to go way way out on a limb and stretch facts so that it's part of United States history; even though it wasn't, so they can say people were proven to be innocent after receiving the death penalty.

So I get to ask in an equally far stretch, how many of those were proven to be innocent after their executions?

We're talking about since the death penalty was resumed in what, 1970?  Since that time no person in the United States has been executed and later proven to be innocent.

word.

......in real US history, I think black people lynches are as close to witch trials...but I think we just hung them for any crime...or just hung them 'cause they didnt obey

[rabbit]

Fine.

Since 1973, 123 people in 25 states have been released from death row with evidence of their innocence.
The most recent exoneration is of John Ballard, No. 123, of Florida, on February 23, 2006.

Source: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=412&scid=6

Death Penalty:
The death penalty is the greatest denial of civil liberties. Innocent people are being sentenced to death. In the past 30 years, 122 inmates were found to be innocent and released from death row. The ACLU is working toward a moratorium on the death penalty. Learn more about the issue and how you can get involved.

Source: http://www.aclu.org/capital/index.html

RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: What we're talking about is you had 25 people on Illinois' death row, 13 of them, that is over half, 13 of them walked away from prison because they were innocent, and the other 12 were executed. You had a man on death row in Illinois come within two days of being executed who was later exonerated, meaning it wasn't that he was cleared on a technicality, it wasn't that didn't read him his Miranda rights, it's that he was innocent.

Source: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0301/11/smn.13.html

"I was in prison for a total of eight years, 11 months and 19 days for a crime I didn't commit," Kirk Bloodsworth told a Capitol Hill news conference this month. Bloodsworth was convicted for the 1984 rape and murder of a 9-year-old Maryland girl. Originally sentenced to death, he was serving a life sentence but was freed in 1993 after a laboratory tested a tiny spot of semen and found it was not his.

"In 1984, they had no DNA that could measure that type of thing," Bloodsworth recounted. "I simply had to wait till technology caught up with my case."

Source: http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/views/y/2000/02/bierbauer.scotusdeath.feb24/

Try a basic search and you'll find plenty about the people who have been put to death and proven innocent.

[Grok]

In which of your 4 quotations does it say that since the death penalty was reinstated that a person was executed and later proven to be innocent?

[rabbit]

Good point.  It would seem I may be wrong, though I'll look into it more.  Although, my results do show that some people come closer to capitol punishment than they ever should.  Based on the numbers, about 14% of death row inmates since 1973 have been innocent, which isn't exactly definitive proof that our lawyers are completely adept at what they do.

[Arta]

Sorry, I should have been more precise.

I was indeed trying to express that it's impossible for anyone to know whether or not an innocent person has been executed in the US since 1976.

MF says that's irrelevant because we should base the law on facts and not speculation, and normally I would agree, but in this case I do not. It is precisely the absence of fact that makes the death penalty unsafe. I'm sure everyone here understands that courts do not require proof positive in order to convict, they require proof beyond reasonable doubt. That, in my opinion, is not a high enough standard of proof upon which to put someone to death. The death penalty leaves no space for the correction of errors. The justice system is not perfect, and as such, occasionally makes mistakes. Thus, irrespective of the facts to date, someone innocent will eventually be executed. It is merely a matter of time. That is not acceptable.

In addition, the death penalty is ineffective as a deterrent, and does not confer greater safety upon the public than life imprisonment without parole.

In short, it is both ineffective and morally dubious. I have never encountered a cogent argument in favour of it.