Citizen's Income

[Arta]

http://brightonregencylabourparty.blogspot.com/2005/08/citizens-income-ci.html

Comment.

[CrAz3D]

Wouldn't everybody just stay at home, I hear you ask?

uhm, yeah.

People would give up working cause they're lazy SOB's & then where is your tax money coming from?...nowhere except the rich people who are getting less rich (assuming they have businesses & hire local employees).

A tax return equal to the cost of living is ideal, but communistic, it won't work.

60.4 million people live in Britain, the L170 billion would give L3000 to 56.6 million.
20% of the population is under 16, why are they being paid anything at all, I suppose that amount would go to their parents to pay for clothing/food/school.


Sounds very idealistic to me, idealism doesn't work in our world.  Human instict is what sticks out & makes everyone look out for #1, why work when you don't have to?

[Arta]

I would work. Otherwise I'd be really bored. Also, £150 a week is a very small amount to live on - not nearly enough for most people, and certainly not enough for any kind of luxury. Even keeping a car on that income would be difficult. I think most people would work.

[CrAz3D]

I would work. Otherwise I'd be really bored. Also, £150 a week is a very small amount to live on - not nearly enough for most people, and certainly not enough for any kind of luxury. Even keeping a car on that income would be difficult. I think most people would work.

Any idea what the general amount of a welfare check is here in the US?
Mississippi averages less than $6000 & California averages $12,000.

There are still people here whom live of welfare alone.

[Arta]

I'm not sure how that equates to here - what's the basic cost of living in those places?

Either way, our welfare systems are not very similar. Yours appears to be quite broken and horribly abused. Ours is abused like any other, but rarely to that extent.

I'll break down £150/wk so we can try to compare the cost of living:

Rent:       £80/wk (for a very cheap nasty place)
Food:      £20/wk
Utilities:  £15/wk

You can see that after that, there's very little left for anything else. Certainly not enough for most of the things that people consider normal: car, net connection, nights out, etc.

[CrAz3D]

Hmm, the $6k in Mississippi would probably be something like...:
$400 rent (small apartment)
$300 for utilities (that's a very iffy estimate)
$400 for food

All figures are +/- a bit more, but that is still enough to live & such I believe.

[Arta]

Per month or per week? Either way, that amount of welfare is obviously significantly more than is necessary to live.

[CrAz3D]

Per month or per week? Either way, that amount of welfare is obviously significantly more than is necessary to live.

My figures are monthly

[Adron]

I think it sounds like a good idea. Complex tax regulations and benefits etc are improductive. Any way to reduce bureaucracy is good.

[CrAz3D]

But still, what happens when people stop working & then stop paying taxes?

[Banana fanna fo fanna]

This is the stupidest idea ever. Where's my incentive to be an entrepreneur?

[Arta]

In answer to both of you:

£150/wk is barely enough to live on. All but the laziest of people will work anyway -- in order to be able to live a comfortable life -- and the people who are too lazy even for that would probably not be working even under the current system.

[CrAz3D]

The article says 3000 for every man woman & child, thats like 250 a month.  The children's 'income' could go to pay for food & such too.

If they cut back on the child's pay (which can still contribute to pay for food & such) the person would be receiving 625 a month.
I'm sure a family of 3 could live on 1533 a month.

[Banana fanna fo fanna]

In answer to both of you:

£150/wk is barely enough to live on. All but the laziest of people will work anyway -- in order to be able to live a comfortable life -- and the people who are too lazy even for that would probably not be working even under the current system.

Still, at 40% taxes, I have no incentive to start a business.

[Adron]

Most business owners here already pay around 40% tax. Margin on additional income is up to 55% for those who make enough money. Plus, VAT is 25% on most things; not on food/newspapers.