NSA Spying

[topaz]

I'd like to state that there are dangerous terrorist groups that are not of middle-eastern origin.

[DarkMinion]

The government enacted a discrimantory policy against Japanese during WWII

That wasn't really racism, more like xenophobia.

[hismajesty]

The government enacted a discrimantory policy against Japanese during WWII

That wasn't really racism, more like xenophobia.

Possibly, but I think xenophobia is more broad?

But many people consider Korematsu vs. US to be a case that came from that ordeal that gives the government the ability to be "racist" (or, at least, use racial profiling/discrimination/etc.) now.

[Kp]

Let me make my position a bit more clear: The government should focus more of its time against those that pose a bigger threat to the country.

Would the government not have more resources available to do so if it didn't waste time spying on innocent people (which is the entire point of this thread)?

[hismajesty]

Let me make my position a bit more clear: The government should focus more of its time against those that pose a bigger threat to the country.

Would the government not have more resources available to do so if it didn't waste time spying on innocent people (which is the entire point of this thread)?

It'd have more resources if it narrowed it down to certain demographics.

[iago]

Like the black (and white) people in street gangs who are responsible for 50% of the murders in your country every year? 

Non-terrorist crime represents a significantly higher threat to your safety than terrorists do.  Why isn't everybody as racist against them?

[CrAz3D]

You mentioned people here on student visas/work visas...I agree, monitor them them out the whazoo, they aren't Americans & would most likely be the terrorists.

However, American citizens, I believe, should have a right to privacy

[hismajesty]

There's PLENTY of people racist against blacks and whites. But I'd definitely be willing to bet there is more gang-related crimes for blacks than whites. Because who's most likely to be in a gang? It's the black people from the hood or the white people who wish they were (black). And some Hispanics (but not really where I live.) Plus in crime reports hispanics are grouped with caucasians.

# Blacks murder more than 1,600 whites each year.
# Blacks murder whites at 18 times the rate whites murder blacks.
# Blacks murdered, raped, robbed, or assaulted about one million whites in 1992.
# In the last 30 years, blacks committed 170 million violent and non-violent crimes against whites.
# Blacks under 18 are more than 12 times more likely to be arrested for murder than whites under 18.
# About 90% of the victims of interracial crimes are white.
# Blacks commit 7.5 times more violent interracial crimes than whites, although whites outnumber blacks by 7 to 1.
# On a per capita basis, blacks commit 50 times more violent crime than whites.
# Black neighborhoods are 35 times more violent than white neighborhoods.
# Of the 27 million nonviolent robberies in 1992, 31% (8.4 million) were committed by blacks against whites. Less than 2% were committed by whites against blacks.
# Of the 6.6 million violent crimes, 20% (1.3 million) were interracial.
# Of the the 1.3 million interracial violent crimes, 90% (1.17 million) are black against white.
# In the past 20 years, violent crime increased four times faster than the population.
# In the last 30 years (1964-94), more than 45,000 people were killed in interracial murders compared to 38,000 killed in Korea and 58,000 in Vietnam.

Whites, of course, are a close second (or first, whatever) but it's because that these are the two most populated races. On the other hand, the 6% (is that figure correct?) of black males in the country perform over 50% of the crimes.
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And, iago, the government responds to that. I hardly ever see a patrol car in my neighborhood, even though there are busy roads on each side and it's not even an upper-middle or upper income neighborhood. But the crime in the hood is low, minus a few shed breakins that were occuring a couple months ago. However, in our "project" and higher-minority areas there are a lot more police patrols (and also murders, source=news).

When police see some black people just hanging around or whatever, they usually question them (Source=COPS) to see whats up.

So, the government is using this method now..by evaluating what demographic (lower class blacks/whites) and what locations (the projects, rundown areas, etc.) are the most dangerous and have the highest probability for crimes, and they respond.

Given that, it's only natural, when combatting terrorism, to look at whos most likely to commit a terrorist act (of course there is outliers, like Oklahoma Cit), and the fact is that it's middle eastern men.

[CrAz3D]

Good points.  Watch them closer, but watch them to where they know you're watching.
Also, I think alot of the cime has to do w/income level in which black people are generally poorer which I think their laziness (in general) was created by affirmative action

[CrAz3D]

Hmm, possibility, maybe we DON'T have a right to privacy.  I KNOW we have the right to free speech, to bear arms & to vote...but there isn't an ammendment about privacy....interesting, maybe they never meant for us to have a full privacy

[Forged]

If you saw a white guy, an asian guy, or even a black guy messing with his shoe on an airplane do you think anybody would care? No. They wouldn't

~2 years ago didn't a white terrorist try and blow up an international flight using a shoe bomb?

but there isn't an ammendment about privacy

How exactlly do you interpret the 4th amendment?

[CrAz3D]

unreasonable search & seizure
I spose if you dont take it literally it could mean privacy.
It could also mean that cops just cant look through yourstuff & take it...& drop it @ that

[Falcon[anti-yL]]

I don't agree with this policy at all, there must be a better way to protect your country without spying on your own people?

[disco]

I don't agree with this policy at all, there must be a better way to protect your country without spying on your own people?

With more freedom comes more danger.  Unless you want to drastically limit peoples rights, security has to be strict.

[Adron]

With more freedom comes more danger.  Unless you want to drastically limit peoples rights, security has to be strict.

Yeah, strict security is good. Ideally, police would have pictures and dna samples of all citizens, and cameras should be mounted in strategic locations everywhere. This way, any time there is a concern for terrorism, whoever has been moving around the area can be traced down instantly.

Also consider how efficient it would make verifying suspect behaviour - someone calls the police saying they saw someone suspicious moving about. All the police have to do is enter the surveillance system, load up the recording of that location and identify the suspect. They could even have a database of what citizens do, so if someone if moving where they normally do not, they would be identified and tagged immediately. This process could be completely automated, with central computers monitoring citizens and alerting a response force as soon as something out of the ordinary happens.


Edit: This system would be almost completely automated, so there would never be a need to fear any intrusion into your privacy unless you were actually doing suspect things. Only those who were suspect would get anyone watching them. That should definitely dispell any privacy concerns anyone might have.