USA says: We do not torture, do not make it illegal!

[Grok]

That's completely not the point. Like I said, the point is that we practice what we preach. That we behave in accordance with our values. That we maintain our integrity and credibility with the rest of the world.

If we don't, everything we say is meaningless, and will be perceived as such.

We're nearly at that point now.  In 1988 the UK and US stood for freedom and democracy.  Most of the world were relieved and happy that the Soviet Union collapsed and without a doubt it was attributed to economic success of the free world vs the failed economy of the USSR.

In less than 20 years we have lost most of our respect and credibility.  In the last 5 years alone the USA went from one of the most desired places to immigrate for freedom into a place to be avoided and feared, even by its own citizens.

[hismajesty]

Yeah, Grok, because over 1 million immigrants a year must be wrong!

[CrAz3D]

Trusty-poo beat me too it

Yeah, there are still many immigrants that would rather be here than where they're at...otherwise they wouldn't immigrate, ha ha, silly me.
But yeah

[hismajesty]

But just look at the tons of Americans that can't wait to risk life and limb to get to Mexico, or to Asia, or eastern Europe.

Oh, wait, they're few and far between. Why? Americans visit those places, they don't live there, for good reasons too - they like freedom.

[WoOdTroll]

The title of this post speaks for itself. No need to argue over it.

Governments corrupt, police force corrupted, educations corrupted, its all fucked up.

[Grok]

There's a big difference between illegal immigration and legal immigration.  Scholars and scientists in other countries are who we most wish to immigrate here.  I have seen anecdotal evidence of these people claiming they no longer wish to come to Amerika because of the loss of privacy and freedom.

[hismajesty]

I was not talking about illegal immigration, the majority of immigration is legal.

Edit: In the number I posted, I mean, not the example.

[Mephisto]

But just look at the tons of Americans that can't wait to risk life and limb to get to Mexico, or to Asia, or eastern Europe.

Oh, wait, they're few and far between. Why? Americans visit those places, they don't live there, for good reasons too - they like freedom.

I'd just like to point out that there are freedom's in Asia for some countries, such as Korea which is a democracy similar to the U.S., but it's currently thriving substantially economically.