Unilateralism will bring about more conflicts.

[CrAz3D]

So...when did the UN expire?

[Topaz]

I don't think it did.

[hismajesty]

So...when did the UN expire?

What the hell? Was that a serious question?

I don't like the UN, at all. They're rotten, dirty, and just plain no good. Sure, some member states have good intentions (like the Security Council, minus China) but other than that the small, terrorist breeding, Middle Eastern countries have too much power. They also use dirty scare-tactics in an attempt to sway policy makers. And on top of that, the US started this thing, we supply the majority of the funding (especially the upper echolon(sp?) of American society) and constantly have our desires pounced on. Meanwhile, the Secretary Generals son, many other officials, and probably Kofi Annan himself, are getting rich off of Saddams neglect of his people. Sure, the oil-for-food program gave Iraqis small amounts of food, but to quote a British journalist (whos name I forget, I'd look it up, but I lent my UN-corruption book out) "is not fit for rats." I personally feel the UN is all talk and no walk, and is furthermore a waste of money, and time. The idea is great, but like Communism, the practice isn't. The UN has overstayed its welcome in international policy, and should either be heavily, heavily reformed or replaced.

[Forged]

So...when did the UN expire?

It was a figure of speech.  There is no expiration date, he was reffering to the fact it has been useless since the collapse of the cccp.

[CrAz3D]

Wasn't it the originally G.W. (George Washington) that said we should keep no indefinate treaties with other countries?

I'm pretty sure most treaties expire, and usually get rewritten with new terms as such. They also get broken through war pacts and etc.

So when does the UN expire?

...
It did expire...

That's what I was reffering to

I thought it was just Kofi's son that was the dirty bastard?...Didn't Kofi just not notice the extreme corruption n the UN?

[hismajesty]

No, there were many people involved. His son was just the most shocking (since it was, well, his son.) I have a whole chapter in my book dedicated to it, but as I said I lent it out so I can't pull quotes. Just logically thinking, though, I'm doubting Kofi was clean in this whole ordeal.

[CrAz3D]

"Innocent until proven guilty"...gotta remember that

I don't know, I'm still hoping he had nothing to do with it

[hismajesty]

I much prefer "Guilty until proven innocent." Still, he was cleared of corruption accusations by a panel appointed to investigate him, but I still have my doubts.

[Topaz]

I much prefer "Guilty until proven innocent." Still, he was cleared of corruption accusations by a panel appointed to investigate him, but I still have my doubts.

Sounds very... one-sided. If you can't prove the criminal guilty, or find at least reasonable doubt, then you're executing an innocent.

[CrAz3D]

I much prefer "Guilty until proven innocent." Still, he was cleared of corruption accusations by a panel appointed to investigate him, but I still have my doubts.

Guilty until proven innocent isnt what America was built upon, its very pro-society & TOTALLY jumps all over a dude's rights

[hismajesty]

Too bad that's how justice is executed. If it wasn't, than "suspects" wouldn't be arrested or thrown into holding cells, thus removing their freedoms, until they were proven guilty.

And it's obvious Americans don't agree with that anymore either, just look at the Jackon trial.

America was built upon religion, but look at how that has changed.

[Topaz]

Too bad that's how justice is executed. If it wasn't, than "suspects" wouldn't be arrested or thrown into holding cells, thus removing their freedoms, until they were proven guilty.

And it's obvious Americans don't agree with that anymore either, just look at the Jackon trial.

America was built upon religion, but look at how that has changed.

If there's reasonable belief that the defendant is guilty, he is held until the trial. If he wins the trial, he goes free. That's the way the justice system works.

[hismajesty]

"beleif is not 'proven'" It's obvious we can't strictly follow that line, "innocent until proven guilty." Maybe it worked before there was a thing called airplanes, and thus "flight risk."

[Banana fanna fo fanna]

America was built upon religion, but look at how that has changed.

No it wasn't. America was built on religious people realizing they have to separate religion and government. Perhaps some ideas stemmed from Christianity (good ideas come from good ideas ), but America was certainly not built upon religion.

Innocent until proven guilty is for private citizens to protect them from the government, not for public officials who need to held accountable for their actions. I don't think it should be the other way around, either, but everyone should certainly be wary of Kofi.

[Yegg]

I think he means that if it wasn't for religion, America wouldn't be here today. The Pilgrims left England because the King forced all people to follow the Anglican church. Many people did not like this, so they decided to leave the country and create their own settlements. They did this because they wanted to practice their own religion freely. Thus American was created upon religion.