Law Lets Floridians `Meet Force With Force'

[MyndFyre]

No, that is not worded incorrectly, you read incorrectly.

No, your closing was the part that was incorrect. You cannot use deadly force to prevent a crime, only to save lives.

No, my entire point was that you can use the same level of physical force as the crime being committed.  Obviously you can't shoot someone who stole a candy bar from the Circle-K.

Opposingly, if someone breaks into your house but is not threatening you with deadly force, you cannot shoot them.

My best friends father is the Deputy Cheif of Police for the Tampa Police Department, and he disagrees. I'll take his word over yours.

My uncle is the Lieutenant of the Paradise Valley PD (the highest rank at that particular department below Chief).  And as I said, my debate with you was under Arizona law.

If a robber is running out of your house, but still in your house -- even carrying your possessions -- you cannot shoot him.

I repeat, you can only use deadly force to save your own life or the life of somebody else. Somebody entering your home, under Florida law, in an unlawful manner, can be seen as a direct threat to your safety.

(emphasis added to both quotes)
Correct!  However, if he is exiting the premises, even with your posessions, is he threatening you with physical harm?

[Forged]

Opposingly, if someone breaks into your house but is not threatening you with deadly force, you cannot shoot them.  If a robber is running out of your house, but still in your house -- even carrying your possessions -- you cannot shoot him.

I know in Texas you can shoot anyone on your property if you feel threatend in any way.  You might want to shoot them before they turn to run away though, because shooting someone in the back looks a little bad on your part when you are trying to claim self defense.

[Hazard]

Correct!  However, if he is exiting the premises, even with your posessions, is he threatening you with physical harm?

Florida law does not make that distinction. He is either in forcively (sp?) in your house or he isn't.

[Adron]

Florida law does not make that distinction. He is either in forcively (sp?) in your house or he isn't.

However, at the time he's leaving your house, you don't know whether he's forcibly in your house or not. Perhaps he's a guy who managed to hit a baseball through your window, and asked your kid on the front side if it was OK that he went in to pick up the ball...

[CrAz3D]

A kid picking up a baseball doesn't look like someone planning to rob you (unless that is just an ingenious ploy!)

[Hazard]

Florida law does not make that distinction. He is either in forcively (sp?) in your house or he isn't.

However, at the time he's leaving your house, you don't know whether he's forcibly in your house or not. Perhaps he's a guy who managed to hit a baseball through your window, and asked your kid on the front side if it was OK that he went in to pick up the ball...

Thats the most retarded thing I ever heard. "What if a bully went and grabbed a little girls Girl Scout cookies and threw them inside the house and the girl said to your neighbor 'Golly gee Mister, I sure need those cookies!" so he goes inside and you shoot..." Give me a fucking break.

[Adron]

However, at the time he's leaving your house, you don't know whether he's forcibly in your house or not. Perhaps he's a guy who managed to hit a baseball through your window, and asked your kid on the front side if it was OK that he went in to pick up the ball...

Thats the most retarded thing I ever heard. "What if a bully went and grabbed a little girls Girl Scout cookies and threw them inside the house and the girl said to your neighbor 'Golly gee Mister, I sure need those cookies!" so he goes inside and you shoot..." Give me a fucking break.

The one with the baseball is insanely more likely than the girl scout cookie idea you have. You'll hear crushed glass, and then a man walking around near/in/around your house. You can replace the baseball with football or R/C model or any of those things that might go through a window.

[Hazard]

So, I'm in my house waiting? Why, exactly, did this gentleman decide not to ring the doorball and ask for the ball back maybe with an apology? Why did he take it upon himself to sneak inside my house?

[CrAz3D]

I'd THINK most baseball type incidents would happen during the day while most robberies at night.  Most people looking for a baseball look like they might be looking for a baseball while most people looking to rob you would look a little suspicious.

[Forged]

Generally when I play baseball I have a hat, and either a bat or a baseball glove on.  If I intended to rob a house I would probablly have on a ski mask and a pair of bolt cutters. 

[MyndFyre]

Generally when I play baseball I have a hat, and either a bat or a baseball glove on.  If I intended to rob a house I would probablly have on a ski mask and a pair of bolt cutters. 

Exactly!  You're not threatening the homeowner with deadly physical force with a pair of bolt cutters!  In fact, I would have to say that you wouldn't be much of a threat at all. 

[CrAz3D]

Generally when I play baseball I have a hat, and either a bat or a baseball glove on.  If I intended to rob a house I would probablly have on a ski mask and a pair of bolt cutters. 

Exactly!  You're not threatening the homeowner with deadly physical force with a pair of bolt cutters!  In fact, I would have to say that you wouldn't be much of a threat at all. 

He could hit the homeowner with them.  Bolt cutters could REALLY hurt & REALLY cause alot of head injury

[Arta]

Someone should acknowledge that I agree with you right wing loons that this law is probably ok.

That said, I have a serious problem with the presumption that any uninvited person in your home must present a deadly threat. That's just silly and paranoid. I suspect that most robbers, when caught in the act, would simply try to run away.

[Hazard]

Someone should acknowledge that I agree with you right wing loons that this law is probably ok.

That said, I have a serious problem with the presumption that any uninvited person in your home must present a deadly threat. That's just silly and paranoid. I suspect that most robbers, when caught in the act, would simply try to run away.

Perhaps 80%. But what protects the masses from those 20% who want to harm you?

[MyndFyre]

Someone should acknowledge that I agree with you right wing loons that this law is probably ok.

That said, I have a serious problem with the presumption that any uninvited person in your home must present a deadly threat. That's just silly and paranoid. I suspect that most robbers, when caught in the act, would simply try to run away.

Perhaps 80%. But what protects the masses from those 20% who want to harm you?

If they want to harm you, shoot them.  I imagine if you approached the 20% of robbers that *would* harm you with a weapon drawn, then 90% of them would run away, unless they already had their guns drawn.  The other 10% is why you have a gun at all.

You don't need to shoot them, though, unless they try to shoot you, or gesture as if they're going to.