New Pope

[iago]

Oh so people are born gay now? Your incontraverable evidence please? Where exactly is the fag gene located? Is it a mistaken bond in one of the helicies?

Hmm, do you have incontrovertible evidence that being homosexual ISN'T genetic?  I only ask because you are so quick to dismiss ANY possibility of it being true, so you MUST know something that we don't.

There is a total lack of evidence that homosexuality is genetic. Doctors and scientists have been unable to show a link and they have tried, thats my evidence.

How, how about talk to ANY GAY PERSON?  Go find a gay guy and ask him when he chose to be gay.

[nslay]

Oh so people are born gay now? Your incontraverable evidence please? Where exactly is the fag gene located? Is it a mistaken bond in one of the helicies?

Hmm, do you have incontrovertible evidence that being homosexual ISN'T genetic?  I only ask because you are so quick to dismiss ANY possibility of it being true, so you MUST know something that we don't.

There is a total lack of evidence that homosexuality is genetic. Doctors and scientists have been unable to show a link and they have tried, thats my evidence.

How, how about talk to ANY GAY PERSON?  Go find a gay guy and ask him when he chose to be gay.

It's probably psychological, maybe in the upbringing or various other factors... Perhaps he/she would not have been gay otherwise.

[Hostile]

I agree with that nslay. Though there may pertain certain physical factors in your personality that would more so lean you towards being gay, ultimately it has to be a mental decision, which may or may not be influenced by how you were raised.

[Hazard]

Oh so people are born gay now? Your incontraverable evidence please? Where exactly is the fag gene located? Is it a mistaken bond in one of the helicies?

Hmm, do you have incontrovertible evidence that being homosexual ISN'T genetic?  I only ask because you are so quick to dismiss ANY possibility of it being true, so you MUST know something that we don't.

There is a total lack of evidence that homosexuality is genetic. Doctors and scientists have been unable to show a link and they have tried, thats my evidence.

How, how about talk to ANY GAY PERSON?  Go find a gay guy and ask him when he chose to be gay.

Go find a rapist and ask when he chose to be a rapist. Go find a serial killer and ask him when he chose to be a serial killer. You'll get a similar answer to the one you get from the gay.

[Adron]

I agree with that nslay. Though there may pertain certain physical factors in your personality that would more so lean you towards being gay, ultimately it has to be a mental decision, which may or may not be influenced by how you were raised.

It doesn't have to be a mental decision. Some people don't feel pain. Do you feel pain? When did you decide to feel pain?

[nslay]

I agree with that nslay. Though there may pertain certain physical factors in your personality that would more so lean you towards being gay, ultimately it has to be a mental decision, which may or may not be influenced by how you were raised.

It doesn't have to be a mental decision. Some people don't feel pain. Do you feel pain? When did you decide to feel pain?

I still see no link between genetics and sexuality.  As far as I know, sexuality is purely a product of the mind whether or not you decided it.  In fact there are many fetishes and kinks associated with sexuality, believed by psychologists to be the product of childhood experiences or trama ... who says homosexuality isn't a type of kink?  Some people have rage because of their childhood, however, they didn't choose to have rage.

Regardless.  A coworker of mine is bisexual.  She likes male body because of that "thing".  However, she likes the female body because it is a more beautiful form and usually cleaner.  This doesn't sound genetic to me, it sounds like a preference.

[Adron]

As far as I know, sexuality is purely a product of the mind whether or not you decided it.

Well, what I meant to argue for was that sexuality isn't a decision you make yourself and can change around as you like. I.e. that someone who is homosexual can not just decide not to be homosexual anymore, and never came to a point where he had to make the choice to become homosexual.

[iago]

So the issue here is that we don't know if homosexuality is a choice.  Some people seem to think that it is a choice people make, but there's no proof either way.  It seems odd that so many homosexuals would be afraid to admit it (enough to create a new phrase, 'in the closet') if they chose it.  But anyway, we can't assume that.

That gives us 2 choices:
1) Follow the bible, hate people for something that they might not have control over.
2) Be accepting of people who are different.

In other words, it comes down to:

1) Believing a book that obviously isn't meant to be taken at face value
2) Believing in freedom (either to choose the life they chose, or to live the way they were born, which ever)

I am, like any American ought to be, in favour of giving people freedom.  Clearly, some of you think that only people who think the same way as them should have freedom.  Considering they aren't hurting anybody or anything, what's the problem, exactly?

Finally, back to religion.  I wish that religion would be accepting of change, but that isn't looking too likely.  For example, John Paul I was in favour of change, and died shortly after becoming Pope. 

If anybody would like to respond, please clarify what exactly you want to argue.  I'll concede that we can't know for sure whether homosexuality is a choice, but the uncertainty shouldn't be a reason to doubt it.

[nslay]

So the issue here is that we don't know if homosexuality is a choice.  Some people seem to think that it is a choice people make, but there's no proof either way.  It seems odd that so many homosexuals would be afraid to admit it (enough to create a new phrase, 'in the closet') if they chose it.  But anyway, we can't assume that.

That gives us 2 choices:
1) Follow the bible, hate people for something that they might not have control over.
2) Be accepting of people who are different.

In other words, it comes down to:

1) Believing a book that obviously isn't meant to be taken at face value
2) Believing in freedom (either to choose the life they chose, or to live the way they were born, which ever)

I am, like any American ought to be, in favour of giving people freedom.  Clearly, some of you think that only people who think the same way as them should have freedom.  Considering they aren't hurting anybody or anything, what's the problem, exactly?

Finally, back to religion.  I wish that religion would be accepting of change, but that isn't looking too likely.  For example, John Paul I was in favour of change, and died shortly after becoming Pope. 

If anybody would like to respond, please clarify what exactly you want to argue.  I'll concede that we can't know for sure whether homosexuality is a choice, but the uncertainty shouldn't be a reason to doubt it.

1) Hate people?  Where did it say to hate anyone?

Hey, it's up to the US/State govt on who should marry.  I doubt the Catholic Church will ever grant gay marriage but what do you care?  As Adron said before, perhaps some churches will grant it (I think Anglican), but then again, there are a lot of churches that probably never will.

Again, regardless of whether or not one chooses to be homosexual doesn't merit it normal.  That doesn't mean they shouldn't marry or not, but I can't see that as being legitimate.