New Pope

[iago]

It has little to do with artificially hindering the process.  The catholics condemn birth control and contraception because it promotes objectificaion.  That is, you can use women for pleasure and women can use you for pleasure without consequence.  I believe it is human nature to take advantage of anything.  Clearly, we can see that in any case, it is wrong to use anyone.

Then why don't do they that procedure (female circumcision, I think?) where they remove that thingy from the woman so they no longer get pleasure from Sex.  Wouldn't it make sense to make sure it's not pleasurable?  And to do the same thing to the male, somehow..

[Adron]

The should probably cut off the penis and use artificial insemination to ensure producing children is done cleanly, without any pleasure.

[nslay]

It has little to do with artificially hindering the process.  The catholics condemn birth control and contraception because it promotes objectificaion.  That is, you can use women for pleasure and women can use you for pleasure without consequence.  I believe it is human nature to take advantage of anything.  Clearly, we can see that in any case, it is wrong to use anyone.

Then why don't do they that procedure (female circumcision, I think?) where they remove that thingy from the woman so they no longer get pleasure from Sex.  Wouldn't it make sense to make sure it's not pleasurable?  And to do the same thing to the male, somehow..

From what I understand circumcision is not a necessary practice in Christianity.  You can see this in the first few verses of chapter 5 of Galations.  I understand that in other religions such as Judaism and Islam, circumcision is practiced.  Circumcision is also a regional thing, from what I understand, males are usually circumcised in Western Culture.  In some areas of Africa females are circumcised...more appropriately this is female genital mutilation.  I am pretty sure this is not an official Catholic practice (in fact, according to CIRP Catholics oppose self mutilation)...I have yet to look it up in the Catechism.  I'll let you know.

[Mitosis]

The women in Africa are meant to get NO pleasure from sex, only the males. So they would castrate them, it's horrible. I feel so bad for those people.

[Hazard]

In the Bible somewhere? It is against the 10 Commandments written by God to commit adultery. Keep up the good work Hazard, .

According to dictionary.com, "Aldultery" is "Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse."  I'm aware that that's a commandment (although I believe they were written by Moses, NOT God, but that's a technicallity).  Where in the bible does it say anything about pre-marital sex?  Or do you just believe everything you're told without checking?

There's a lot of stuff that I was told was in the bible (back when I went to Sunday School) which, upon further checking, isn't. 

iago, is it possible that maybe, JUST MAYBE, the Church defines it differently? Or are you asserting that the dictionary.com definition is the ONLY POSSIBLE definition?

[Hazard]

Adron, once again you're blowing the Church's teachings way out of proportion, just like you always do. Cut the overexaggeration and over-deduction out and take it for what it is. The Church doesn't think that using anything artificial to hinder God's process is wrong. God designed human beings, women in particular, to have their cycles. Its a natural occurance. Putting on a condom is not. Taking a pill or a shot is not.

[iago]

The women in Africa are meant to get NO pleasure from sex, only the males. So they would castrate them, it's horrible. I feel so bad for those people.

Neither should, though. 

Hazard -- I've never heard it defined in another way, before.  I believe the word in question is "fornication", which is "Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other".  Is the bible actually against that? I don't really know.  I'm kind wondering if people actually know where it's said, or if they just assume it's in there because they're told it is. 

nslay -- Female circumcision is a little different.  To use dictionary.com again, "clitoridectomy especially as a cultural rite sometimes with removal of the labia that is now outlawed in some nations including the U.S. —abbreviation FGM called also female circumcision."  It basically takes the sexual pleasure out of sex, which seems like something logical to do if sex is for nothing more than procreation.

[nslay]

The women in Africa are meant to get NO pleasure from sex, only the males. So they would castrate them, it's horrible. I feel so bad for those people.

Neither should, though. 

Hazard -- I've never heard it defined in another way, before.  I believe the word in question is "fornication", which is "Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other".  Is the bible actually against that? I don't really know.  I'm kind wondering if people actually know where it's said, or if they just assume it's in there because they're told it is. 

nslay -- Female circumcision is a little different.  To use dictionary.com again, "clitoridectomy especially as a cultural rite sometimes with removal of the labia that is now outlawed in some nations including the U.S. —abbreviation FGM called also female circumcision."  It basically takes the sexual pleasure out of sex, which seems like something logical to do if sex is for nothing more than procreation.

Just because sex is for procreation doesn't mean it should be pleasureless.  You seem to be implying that because sex is pleasurable, that it should be misused.  This doesn't go both ways.

[Invert]

People like Hazard give Catholics a bad reputation. His stubbornness and unwillingness to admit that there is anything wrong with what is going on in today's Catholic Church is a prime example of why there IS something wrong with the Catholic Church today.

Saying something like "The fact that the Lord God HIMSELF declared adultry to be a sin cannot be changed."

This narrow minded fool knows for a FACT that there is God and he knows for a FACT that "God HIMSELF" said that adultery is bad.

If this is all a fact why do we call it religion or a belief?

Here is a fact: Hazard does not know if God exists or not.

[nslay]

The women in Africa are meant to get NO pleasure from sex, only the males. So they would castrate them, it's horrible. I feel so bad for those people.

Neither should, though. 

Hazard -- I've never heard it defined in another way, before.  I believe the word in question is "fornication", which is "Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other".  Is the bible actually against that? I don't really know.  I'm kind wondering if people actually know where it's said, or if they just assume it's in there because they're told it is. 

nslay -- Female circumcision is a little different.  To use dictionary.com again, "clitoridectomy especially as a cultural rite sometimes with removal of the labia that is now outlawed in some nations including the U.S. —abbreviation FGM called also female circumcision."  It basically takes the sexual pleasure out of sex, which seems like something logical to do if sex is for nothing more than procreation.

Regarding Fornication
dictionary.com defines it as sexual intercourse
furthermore
dictionary.com defines adultery as the voluntary intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the spouse
You can see that among the 10 commandments, adultery is mentioned
You can find this in the bible in Exodus 20:14

As a followup
The Catholic Church defines Adultery:
2380 of the Catechism
Adultery refers to marital infedility.  When two partners of whom at least one is married to another party, have sexual relations - even transient ones - they commit adultery.  Christ condemns even adultery of mere desire.  The sixth commandment and the New Testament forbid adultery absolutely.  The prophets denounce the gravity of adultery; they see it as an image of the sin of idolatry.

[iago]

The women in Africa are meant to get NO pleasure from sex, only the males. So they would castrate them, it's horrible. I feel so bad for those people.

Neither should, though. 

Hazard -- I've never heard it defined in another way, before.  I believe the word in question is "fornication", which is "Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other".  Is the bible actually against that? I don't really know.  I'm kind wondering if people actually know where it's said, or if they just assume it's in there because they're told it is. 

nslay -- Female circumcision is a little different.  To use dictionary.com again, "clitoridectomy especially as a cultural rite sometimes with removal of the labia that is now outlawed in some nations including the U.S. —abbreviation FGM called also female circumcision."  It basically takes the sexual pleasure out of sex, which seems like something logical to do if sex is for nothing more than procreation.

Regarding Fornication
dictionary.com defines it as sexual intercourse
furthermore
dictionary.com defines adultery as the voluntary intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the spouse
You can see that among the 10 commandments, adultery is mentioned
You can find this in the bible in Exodus 20:14

As a followup
The Catholic Church defines Adultery:
2380 of the Catechism
Adultery refers to marital infedility.  When two partners of whom at least one is married to another party, have sexual relations - even transient ones - they commit adultery.  Christ condemns even adultery of mere desire.  The sixth commandment and the New Testament forbid adultery absolutely.  The prophets denounce the gravity of adultery; they see it as an image of the sin of idolatry.

Ok, I don't CARE about adultery!  I know it's in the 10 commandments, so it was, in a sense, given by God.  I want somebody to tell me where in the Bible Fornication (which is pre-marital sex!) is condemned. 

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=fornication -- Sex between unmarried people (pre-marital sex)
http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=adultery -- Sex between somebody who's married and somebody who isn't his wife (NOT the issue here)

[Hazard]

People like Hazard give Catholics a bad reputation. His stubbornness and unwillingness to admit that there is anything wrong with what is going on in today's Catholic Church is a prime example of why there IS something wrong with the Catholic Church today.

I'm not a Catholic. Read the whole thing before you post. My stubborness is showing the CHURCH'S position, not mine. People like you are the ones that give anti-Catholics so much scorn. You don't understand why the church says what it says, you just assume that it either a) can't be correct or b) just take it out of context and hate on it. Everybody knows there are problems with the church, but saying that the church has to change its moral values to accept things that God says is wrong is idiotic.

Saying something like "The fact that the Lord God HIMSELF declared adultry to be a sin cannot be changed."

He did.

This narrow minded fool knows for a FACT that there is God and he knows for a FACT that "God HIMSELF" said that adultery is bad.

I have faith in the word. Is that a problem? You don't accept things that you can't see from numbers or with your eyes?

Here is a fact: Hazard does not know if God exists or not.

Yes I do, because I believe. I have undying faith in his existence.


I'd like to re-state that none of you have a problem with religious people, but its very obvious that you have a problem with religion. Quite simply, its because you are blind, stupid, and lack heart. I truly do pray that one day you change your ways and accept God because if you don't, I have faith that you will face the consequences. Is it worth the risk to you? Some of you have said that I argue for the sake of arguing, I think that you all argue against religion just for the sake of seeming to be a higher being yourselves, and its very, very sad.

All of you need to realize that you're being futile in your arguments against the religious to reject God. All of us who have accepted religion know just how stupid all of your arguments against God sound. You're huge arguments are "he can't logically exist" or "science has proven" or whatever, but all true religious people know that you can't logically or scientifically explain the existence of something that is beyond time, beyond space, and beyond human understanding. Give up your fight to tell us how stupid religion and the churches are, because everyone who is religious knows better.

iago:

Must I remind  you that the Bible was translated from its original language, to Latin, then to all its other languages? Don't you think that its possible that fornication and adultery were interpreted differently? Or is this simply impossible? Things get "lost in the translation" or so they say.

[Mitosis]

I spent my whole childhood in a Catholic school, we were always told that it is a sin to have sex before marrage. I will look in my Bible to find out where it is stated.

[iago]

I spent my whole childhood in a Catholic school, we were always told that it is a sin to have sex before marrage. I will look in my Bible to find out where it is stated.

"The Church" and "The Bible" are quite different.  That's why I like to know if "The Bible" says things like that, or if The Church just pulled it out of their ass.

Hazard -- If you want to take up that argument, then you have to accept that argument that anything in the bible is a potential mistranslation and therefore can't be accepted.  I can interpret any passage in any way I want by claiming "well, maybe the word was translated wrong". 

Again, find me proof.  It's not that I don't believe it, I don't care enough to believe or disbelieve, it's that it seems to me that others believe what they're told without proof.

[Adron]

All of you need to realize that you're being futile in your arguments against the religious to reject God. All of us who have accepted religion know just how stupid all of your arguments against God sound. You're huge arguments are "he can't logically exist" or "science has proven" or whatever, but all true religious people know that you can't logically or scientifically explain the existence of something that is beyond time, beyond space, and beyond human understanding. Give up your fight to tell us how stupid religion and the churches are, because everyone who is religious knows better.

Well, assuming that theoretically, I were to become religious... What god should I believe in, and why that god and not any of the others?