cease fire, how long will it last?

[quasi-modo]

The fact is, Adron and Arta aren't even qualified to speak on any of this because they don't know anything about American policy. I doubt either of you have any sort of experience in the field and have never studied American foreign policy with any sort of depth.

You're a 17 year old high schooler.  I don't think you've studied American foreign policy in depth other than what has been offered at your high school and maybe read a few books here and there.

Except he is in ib classes. I have taken ap amgovt, ap econ, ap econ comp, and ap ush. I think I have a pretty decent idea. I suspect hazard has taken some of the aps and some equiv ib classes.

[Arta]

You don't need an advanced understanding of American foreign policy to tell that killing terrorists just makes more terrorists.

FYI, I don't think America is turning into a police state, nor have I ever said that I do. Thanks for reading what I post so carefully. On the other hand, I do think that America is making some bad legislative decisions that won't stand the test of time.

[Adron]

The fact is, Adron and Arta aren't even qualified to speak on any of this because they don't know anything about American policy. I doubt either of you have any sort of experience in the field and have never studied American foreign policy with any sort of depth.

And the fact is that Hazard is unqualified to speak on any of this because his views of international events are heavily colored by the American propaganda machine. He doesn't get to read the plain, politically incorrect, unpatriotic, truth.

[dxoigmn]

The fact is, Adron and Arta aren't even qualified to speak on any of this because they don't know anything about American policy. I doubt either of you have any sort of experience in the field and have never studied American foreign policy with any sort of depth.

You're a 17 year old high schooler.  I don't think you've studied American foreign policy in depth other than what has been offered at your high school and maybe read a few books here and there.

Except he is in ib classes. I have taken ap amgovt, ap econ, ap econ comp, and ap ush. I think I have a pretty decent idea. I suspect hazard has taken some of the aps and some equiv ib classes.

What's your point?  AP/IB classes are generally below-introductory college courses and you rarely study any issue in depth as you would in a college course.

Edit: What did you get on those AP tests?

[quasi-modo]

You don't need an advanced understanding of American foreign policy to tell that killing terrorists just makes more terrorists.

I think you will still have less terrorists then you started with because a) you killed a bunch and b) you pissed some off, but you scared some other would be terrorists.

[quasi-modo]

The fact is, Adron and Arta aren't even qualified to speak on any of this because they don't know anything about American policy. I doubt either of you have any sort of experience in the field and have never studied American foreign policy with any sort of depth.

And the fact is that Hazard is unqualified to speak on any of this because his views of international events are heavily colored by the American propaganda machine. He doesn't get to read the plain, politically incorrect, unpatriotic, truth.

By that you mean the blatantly liberal american media which turned the election into a bush bash fest?

[quasi-modo]

The fact is, Adron and Arta aren't even qualified to speak on any of this because they don't know anything about American policy. I doubt either of you have any sort of experience in the field and have never studied American foreign policy with any sort of depth.

You're a 17 year old high schooler.  I don't think you've studied American foreign policy in depth other than what has been offered at your high school and maybe read a few books here and there.

Except he is in ib classes. I have taken ap amgovt, ap econ, ap econ comp, and ap ush. I think I have a pretty decent idea. I suspect hazard has taken some of the aps and some equiv ib classes.

What's your point?  AP/IB classes are generally below-introductory college courses and you rarely study any issue in depth as you would in a college course.

Edit: What did you get on those AP tests?

I made a 4 on govt and the two econ tests. I made a 3 on apush. I made a 3 on ap comp sci too... but I am actually disappointed about that, I think I coulda done better.

My point is I think Hazard knows a thing or two about what he is talking about, much more than Joe Shmo on the street.

[Arta]

You don't need an advanced understanding of American foreign policy to tell that killing terrorists just makes more terrorists.

I think you will still have less terrorists then you started with because a) you killed a bunch and b) you pissed some off, but you scared some other would be terrorists.

It's totally and utterly naive to think that you can scare people who are willing to blow themselves up for their cause.

[quasi-modo]

You don't need an advanced understanding of American foreign policy to tell that killing terrorists just makes more terrorists.

I think you will still have less terrorists then you started with because a) you killed a bunch and b) you pissed some off, but you scared some other would be terrorists.

It's totally and utterly naive to think that you can scare people who are willing to blow themselves up for their cause.

They are not afraid to die, but afraid to get caught. Either way if you kill all of the terrorists I think the second batch is going to be smaller than the first.

[Banana fanna fo fanna]

The fact is, Adron and Arta aren't even qualified to speak on any of this because they don't know anything about American policy. I doubt either of you have any sort of experience in the field and have never studied American foreign policy with any sort of depth.

And the fact is that Hazard is unqualified to speak on any of this because his views of international events are heavily colored by the American propaganda machine. He doesn't get to read the plain, politically incorrect, unpatriotic, truth.

If you listen to any American propaganda at all, you'd see that it is, in fact, anti-American and anti-Bush.

[Arta]

You don't need an advanced understanding of American foreign policy to tell that killing terrorists just makes more terrorists.

I think you will still have less terrorists then you started with because a) you killed a bunch and b) you pissed some off, but you scared some other would be terrorists.

It's totally and utterly naive to think that you can scare people who are willing to blow themselves up for their cause.

They are not afraid to die, but afraid to get caught. Either way if you kill all of the terrorists I think the second batch is going to be smaller than the first.

I don't think that's true at all. Terrorists represent a very small percentage of the population of the world. Given that the potential exists for anyone to become radicalised, and that perceived acts of injustice are a very effective at radicalising people, it stands to reason that violence will be very effective at radicalising the people who are left behind.  Every time someone is killed, their friends and relatives are robbed of that person. A proportion of those people will become radicalised.

I spoke at length in a previous thread about this question of perceived injustice in the context of right and wrong, and this is another example of it. In many parts of the world, the terrorists are percieved as being the good guys, fighting the evil, corrupt west. It's a struggle - which is what the word 'jihad' means - against a perceived oppressor. I think it has been fairly well bourne out by history that a concerted group of resistance fighters - which his how many people see radical islamic groups - are generally successful in their attempts to overthrow their oppressors.

Now, in this case, I don't think that will be the result. I don't think the west is oppressing the middle east, and I don't think these people are resistance fighters. I think they are terrorists with an unrealisitc, radical agenda. Nonetheless, the point is not what I think - it's what they think - because it's their beliefs and their attitude that will define their behaviour. Thus, although the circumstances are not the same, I think that the result will be similar.

By killing terrorists, we further brutalise an already radical population, and inevitably, in the process, create more people who are willing to take up violence.

[quasi-modo]

Yes, but a good number of muslims do not like these terrorists and they know that these terrorists are the reason we are over there to begin with. Some of them speak out against the 'fighters'. I think when you kill a batch, you will get another batch, but I think it will be smaller.

[Arta]

Why smaller? Please explain your reasoning. Even the moderates of which you speak have limits.

[quasi-modo]

Why smaller? Please explain your reasoning. Even the moderates of which you speak have limits.

Okay, you have plenty of people in the muslim world who are pissed off about all the fighting. They realize that this militant extremist group is really a problem. Some speak out against it. They are going to encourage people not to become terrorists. When a country goes in to fight the terrorists those non-terrorists are going to be all pissed off at the terrorists for bringing us in. I have heard interviews on the news of some Iraqi people who were really pissed off that we were there, but they were not pissed at us, but they were pissed at the insurgent fighters.

[Hazard]

The fact is, Adron and Arta aren't even qualified to speak on any of this because they don't know anything about American policy. I doubt either of you have any sort of experience in the field and have never studied American foreign policy with any sort of depth.

And the fact is that Hazard is unqualified to speak on any of this because his views of international events are heavily colored by the American propaganda machine. He doesn't get to read the plain, politically incorrect, unpatriotic, truth.

You're blinded by the anti-American propoganda machine that is most of Europe. You don't get to read what happens here after it has been washed through the insulent minds of your nation's media. You have no idea what goes on here. You think you know, but the fact is you don't