Valhalla Legends Archive

Paternalism is the idea that the state can act in ways that protect us from ourselves.  They are laws like seat belt laws or laws that make drug use illegal.  What right does the state have to step in and tell me what I can and cannot do to myself?  The state has no right to make it illegal for me to kill myself if I am so inclined.  These laws only serve as stepping stones for continued creeping over the line of liberty.  If Im a rational autonomous adult then my life and liberty should only be in my hands with the exceptions of accidents.

Mercy reply.  

Lol this is important tho

I mean if I want to go duel someone because we cant come up with a better resolution to our differences then (assuming we both agree to it) we should be able to go out and attempt to kill one another government shouldnt restrict me from doing what I want with my life

Yes, lets fall into anarchy and we'll have a harmonious country, like Afghanistan.  

I think part of the whole thing against suicide may very well be to keep the rest of the public safe. For instance, if you jump off of an overpass and you hit a vehicle below, it could cause serious problems. Or if you crash your automobile into something to kill yourself, you endanger others.

Theres a big difference between anarchy and a government that doesnt involve itself in the affairs of the citizens.  Laws would still be in place to govern interaction between people but laws that tell me I cant do something to myself are out of line for any government to be telling me

Well... without laws to govern what people can and cannot do in their lives you end up in anarchy...

Quote from: Telos on March 04, 2004, 09:14 PM
Laws would still be in place to govern interaction between people but laws that tell me I cant do something to myself are out of line for any government to be telling me

There just shouldnt be laws telling me what I can or cant do with my and only my life

QuoteLaws would still be in place to govern interaction between people

QuoteThere just shouldnt be laws telling me what I can or cant do with my and only my life

That is called a contradiction.

No DarkMinion the idea is that we have laws in place to prevent me from constituting harm (physical) to other members of society but not ones to prevent me from causing harm to myself as long as it doesnt harm others

Quote from: Hazard on March 04, 2004, 09:13 PM
I think part of the whole thing against suicide may very well be to keep the rest of the public safe. For instance, if you jump off of an overpass and you hit a vehicle below, it could cause serious problems. Or if you crash your automobile into something to kill yourself, you endanger others.

What kind of a moron would jump into moving traffic from an overpass that would be one of the most painful ways to die//paralyze yourself and end up in a wheelchair forever.
I'd be more into going to the gas station, buying $1s worth of gas, dispensing it on myself, and lighting a cigarette. On the serious side though, I used to agree with you telos but then you have to realize how dumb half the population is. It would result in chaos. So, those of us that would be able to do as we please to ourselves without killing others have to suffer.

I equate these laws with the "0th law of Robotics".  We create laws not only to protect humans, but to protect humanity.  The laws are proper as they do ensure domestic tranquility and provide for the common welfare.  The former and latter are both satisfied by anti-suicide attempt laws.

To combat your argument how dumb would you have to be to kill yourself in the first place?

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I equate these laws with the "0th law of Robotics".  We create laws not only to protect humans, but to protect humanity.  The laws are proper as they do ensure domestic tranquility and provide for the common welfare.  The former and latter are both satisfied by anti-suicide attempt laws.

Im not sure Asimovs are all that applicable here.  What youve said is that having laws that restrict individual liberty is good because it prevents other individuals from knowing that they have the option to do something different/or bad for themselves as the case may be.  I dont think that you can honestly say that potential psychological harm is a viable justification for restricting my rights.

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To combat your argument how dumb would you have to be to kill yourself in the first place?

As dumb as you were to make that post.  This isnt about suicide its about the right to do so if you wanted to.

Quote from: crashtestdummy on March 04, 2004, 10:54 PM
On the serious side though, I used to agree with you telos but then you have to realize how dumb half the population is. It would result in chaos. So, those of us that would be able to do as we please to ourselves without killing others have to suffer.

Read On The Origin of Species and when you get it come back to the free side