Chocolate covered New Orleans

[Arta]

No. If you're white I mean.

If I felt someone was being racist to me, I'd say so (White/male here, fyi).

Yes, however, when they go as far as to blame everyone and everything for their misfortunes, and continue to do so when we are trying to help them...

Do 'they' now? All of 'them'? See what I mean? Perhaps what you mean to say is that poor people in NO feel like the government let them down? Perhaps the government did?

Yeah, if they WERE victims of racism.

I think as Joe said, most of the racism today comes from the other side

I think most rational people will be perfectly receptive to that argument, but you have to be able to back it up. Spurious allegations of racism are a fast way to end up being discredited.

[CrAz3D]

I think most rational people will be perfectly receptive to that argument, but you have to be able to back it up. Spurious allegations of racism are a fast way to end up being discredited.

Yes, but it isnt tradition lynching racism.
"Chocolate covered New Orleans" is racism.
Black people calling black people nigger is racism.
Affirmative action is racism

[Newby]

Yes, however, when they go as far as to blame everyone and everything for their misfortunes, and continue to do so when we are trying to help them...

Do 'they' now? All of 'them'? See what I mean? Perhaps what you mean to say is that poor people in NO feel like the government let them down? Perhaps the government did?

You know I was referring to "victims of racism" when I said them and they. Don't try and say I'm being racist. You sound like you're a victim of racism in doing so.

How can the government let them down?

I mean, if you overlook the fact that the mostly-human (may be a martian or two in there, you never know) based government can't stop the hurricane from hitting, and offered them rides out of NO, the government did let them down.

[Arta]

Yes, but it isnt tradition lynching racism.

Yes, of course.

"Chocolate covered New Orleans" is racism.

Probably

Black people calling black people nigger is racism.

Probably not.

Affirmative action is racism

Perhaps - an interesting topic. Certainly worthy of a new thread.

You know I was referring to "victims of racism" when I said them and they.

I honestly didn't.

How can the government let them down?

By taking excessively long to help people in need.

I mean, if you overlook the fact that the mostly-human (may be a martian or two in there, you never know) based government can't stop the hurricane from hitting, and offered them rides out of NO, the government did let them down.

The aftermath of the hurricane is what's relevant: the emergency response.

[Newby]

You know I was referring to "victims of racism" when I said them and they.

I honestly didn't.

Sad.

How can the government let them down?

By taking excessively long to help people in need.

Oh yeah I forgot, if you offer to help someone and they turn it down, you should automatically help them after. That's how the world works!

If someone asks me for help and I don't get it, and I ask them for help after, I'm expecting them to tell me to fuck off.

I mean, if you overlook the fact that the mostly-human (may be a martian or two in there, you never know) based government can't stop the hurricane from hitting, and offered them rides out of NO, the government did let them down.

The aftermath of the hurricane is what's relevant: the emergency response.

If you stayed in New Orleans after they warned you about a hurricane approaching, and even offered to take you out by bus, no offense, you are better off dead. Why should we hold their hand if they refuse to take it when they have the chance?

Don't forget, when I say "their hand" I'm calling their ugly black hands inferior, because I'm a racist. *cough*

[Arta]

Sad.

Howso?

Oh yeah I forgot, if you offer to help someone and they turn it down, you should automatically help them after. That's how the world works!

It's my understanding that the Governor asked for help at least the day before the hurricane (if not, earlier). I've seen the letter from the Governor to the President that evidences this. I shall try to find it if this assertion is disputed.

The fact that private corporations managed to provide help before the federal government, is, to me, evidence in itself that the government were negligent in their duty to help the citizens in New Orleans. The government, with its significantly larger pool of resources, has no excuse for mobilising so slowly.

If you stayed in New Orleans after they warned you about a hurricane approaching, and even offered to take you out by bus, no offense, you are better off dead. Why should we hold their hand if they refuse to take it when they have the chance?

You seem to be assuming that all of those people had the means to heed that warning.

When was the bus service offered? Was the capacity sufficient to serve all the citizens of New Orleans? Why do you assume that everyone was able to take advantage of this offer? What about the disabled? The sick? The elderly? The homeless? Do these people deserve to die because of their circumstances?

[Newby]

Sad.

Howso?

I thought you would have been able to piece simple logic together. Why would I refer to them as "they" and "them" over their race?

Oh yeah I forgot, if you offer to help someone and they turn it down, you should automatically help them after. That's how the world works!

It's my understanding that the Governor asked for help at least the day before the hurricane (if not, earlier). I've seen the letter from the Governor to the President that evidences this. I shall try to find it if this assertion is disputed.

The fact that private corporations managed to provide help before the federal government, is, to me, evidence in itself that the government were negligent in their duty to help the citizens in New Orleans. The government, with its significantly larger pool of resources, has no excuse for mobilising so slowly.

Please do. I'd love to see his letters. Not that I don't believe you, but because I never heard this. In turn, I'll try and find proof that evacuation before the hurricane hit was offered, since I feel like I'm arguing about something I was told/mis-read.

The fact that it (by "it", I mean the national government) has to manage the rest of a gigantic nation may be one hinderance in the ability to mobilize and help NO. NO may have been important at the time, but the rest of the nation has to go on watched and such. Think BNLS updating vs JBLS. BNLS admins were too busy to update it as of a few older patches, and JBLS was much much more successful in patching and server information to clients. The BNLS, having a much larger pool of clients they have to deal with and having access to the game clients (they ran Windows all around) and thus having an easy method of patching, have no excuse for slowly patching it.

See the comparison? The BNLS admins had preoccupations with their lives. It wasn't urgent like NO was, but it was gotten around to.

Also see: the government eventually arrived.

If you stayed in New Orleans after they warned you about a hurricane approaching, and even offered to take you out by bus, no offense, you are better off dead. Why should we hold their hand if they refuse to take it when they have the chance?

You seem to be assuming that all of those people had the means to heed that warning.

When was the bus service offered? Was the capacity sufficient to serve all the citizens of New Orleans? Why do you assume that everyone was able to take advantage of this offer? What about the disabled? The sick? The elderly? The homeless? Do these people deserve to die because of their circumstances?

I'm assuming that some were able to heed the warning, and would tell their friends, who would tell their friends, and the chain goes on to get the majority.

Does it matter if it was sufficient to serve all of NO? The fact is, the people that were offered to help evacutate NO before the hurricane hit turned it down. Sick, elderly, homeless, disabled, it doesn't matter. They turned it down for whatever reason. Perhaps they didn't like the fact that the transportation out was dirty, perhaps they didn't think the hurricane was that big of a deal. A comedian made a joke saying "this isn't like the boats back in the 1600s where you took a free ride and ended up in chains, get that idea out of your head!" at one point on TV.

[CrAz3D]

I'd like to note that my sister saw on the news that during a "Welcome Back" parade for people in New Orleans 2 people were gunned down.

Mk, thanks, burn NO...maybe the fed's didn't respond quickly enough.
Maybe that was their plan.
Maybe they wanted to destroy that part of the state & rebuild it differently.
Maybe they wanted to let hundreds die.
I dunno, I just know that NO is fucked up place that I wont ever go to.

[UserLoser]

oh the satire

[Arta]

I thought you would have been able to piece simple logic together. Why would I refer to them as "they" and "them" over their race?

People very often do.

Please do. I'd love to see his letters. Not that I don't believe you, but because I never heard this. In turn, I'll try and find proof that evacuation before the hurricane hit was offered, since I feel like I'm arguing about something I was told/mis-read.

I'll have a search.

The fact that it (by "it", I mean the national government) has to manage the rest of a gigantic nation may be one hinderance in the ability to mobilize and help NO. NO may have been important at the time, but the rest of the nation has to go on watched and such. Think BNLS updating vs JBLS. BNLS admins were too busy to update it as of a few older patches, and JBLS was much much more successful in patching and server information to clients. The BNLS, having a much larger pool of clients they have to deal with and having access to the game clients (they ran Windows all around) and thus having an easy method of patching, have no excuse for slowly patching it.

See the comparison? The BNLS admins had preoccupations with their lives. It wasn't urgent like NO was, but it was gotten around to.

I think that's a total cop-out. The situation in NO was not something to be dealt with 'when they got round to it'. It was, as far as I am aware, the most damaging natural disaster ever to hit the US. The severity and immediacy of the problem was more than enough to eclipse other, less pressing, work.

The fact is, the people that were offered to help evacutate NO before the hurricane hit turned it down.

I'd like to see some evidence that makes clear the accuracy and specific cirumstances of this claim.

[CrAz3D]

I'd like to point out that the government was designed to move slowly to protect us from w/e.
Maybe they got tied up in massive amounts of paper work.

[Arta]

That's just prima facie untrue.

[iago]

Does it matter if it was sufficient to serve all of NO? The fact is, the people that were offered to help evacutate NO before the hurricane hit turned it down. Sick, elderly, homeless, disabled, it doesn't matter. They turned it down for whatever reason.

I'm curious how they managed to contact every homeless person in the city/area.  They can't phone them, or find them all.  Unless there is some means to contact a large group of homeless people, your assumptions are clearly false. 

The fact that it took the federal government days to help is disgusting.  A riduclous number of people died that day.  People here talk about "horrible tragedies" where 12 minors died, or 9-11 when 3000 people died (which was enough to go to multiple wars, and completely re-do the country's security, costing billions of dollars).  Within an hour of 9-11, there was response from the federal government, and that was a complete surprise.  Then there's Katrina, where 1400 people are confirmed dead, 1300 suspected dead, and 3200 people still unaccounted for.  That's a total of almost 6000 dead!  And it took days for the federal government to respond.  There's something wrong there. 

My main question: they knew that Katrina was going to be enough to destroy the dikes before the hurrican ever hit.  Why wasn't the federal government ready to mobilize (or already mobilized) long before?  Even the Canadian government mobilizes its troops within 24 hours for national crisises, like the major ice-storms we had in Quebec a few years ago. 

[CrAz3D]

9/11 vs. Katrina isn't the same thing.

In 9/11 people were all in 1 place & there were thousands of emergency response people within just a few miles.

In Katrina people were all over the place & everyone that was smart had alaready headed for the hills.
It takes time to get to a place where no one but victims are w/basically no roads.

[iago]

In Katrina people were all over the place & everyone that was smart had alaready headed for the hills.

Most of this discussion has been exactly against that: not everybody had the means to head "for the hills"