Crips Co-founder Executed

[Arta]

Bullshit.

No.

Additionally, even if I did wish such a person to die (I don't deny it's possible) such a wish is irrelevant. The purpose of the justice system is not to exact revenge. The fact that you or I might want to chase such a person down and murder them with a big stick is exactly why we have a justice system.

Avenging someone is not the same as getting justice. That's one of the many, many reasons why the death penalty is so very bad.

[CrAz3D]

iago, of course it isn't illegal to be wtih/start a group, but when you start a gang that is illegal.  Gangs are illegal & you know that, Canadians can't be THAT high all the time to not realize such obvious facts.

As far as the murders, you know he did it, don't deny that.  He is also responsible for other murder committed by the gang while it was under his control, there is no denying that.

Did you see video of him before he died?  He didn't look like a nice little 40yr man that wrote children's book, he looked HUGE with his muscular body walking to his death...he didnt even appear to look nice

[Arta]

he looked HUGE with his muscular body walking to his death...he didnt even appear to look nice

How is that even remotely relevant?

[Explicit]

You either haven't felt or don't understand the emotional pain, turmoil, and eventually, anger.

You're not allowed to say whether he deserves to live or not.

Anyone is capable of feeling those things, and the majority of people who have had a murder in their family respond in anger.  I've felt the same way once before, but realizing that it shouldn't be my decision to play God, I eventually let it go.

If you wanted to take this to an emotional level, it takes a lot more heart to forgive the individual in question, rather than demanding for their execution.  Which do you think would make the individual contemplate their actions more?

The death penalty is not just, and I don't believe it's in our hands to decide the fate of "criminals."  Some form of punishment is fine, but death overall, no.

[iago]

iago, of course it isn't illegal to be wtih/start a group, but when you start a gang that is illegal.  Gangs are illegal & you know that, Canadians can't be THAT high all the time to not realize such obvious facts.

What is the difference between a group and a gang?  I don't understand the distinction, but I'd like to. 

And for the record, I've never been high, and never plan to be.  Also, none of my close friends do drugs.  That's a stereotype. 

As far as the murders, you know he did it, don't deny that.  He is also responsible for other murder committed by the gang while it was under his control, there is no denying that.

Actually, I didn't know he murdered somebody, I didn't know he was in jail, I didn't know he was awaiting execution, and I've never heard his name before yesterday.  The only reason I know it now is because I saw it on CNN.  You're the one who mentioned the possibility of him getting an "appeal", which indicates to me that there's a chance he's innocent.  Why would you get an appeal otherwise?  You suggested the possibility, not me.

Did you see video of him before he died?  He didn't look like a nice little 40yr man that wrote children's book, he looked HUGE with his muscular body walking to his death...he didnt even appear to look nice

I'm afraid he did write a childrens book, and wrote many papers articles (<edit>letting my academic side show through, sorry</edit>) on why joining gangs is bad.  I don't see how his appearance makes a difference there?  I definitely don't look like a computer scientist, but I assure you that I am.  Are you that superficial?

[CrAz3D]

Gang in the sense of a street gang that committs crimes against society

Appeals are based on errors produced from the previous hearngs, appeallate courts don't decide guilt, they decide issues of law only.

Most people that write children's books don't look like the stereotypical gang murderer as he does/did

[dxoigmn]

You either haven't felt or don't understand the emotional pain, turmoil, and eventually, anger.

You're not allowed to say whether he deserves to live or not.

No I haven't (at least not in the context of murder), but I do know I can control my emotions, and let my logic prevail.

No one should be allowed to say whether he deserves to live or not.

iago, of course it isn't illegal to be wtih/start a group, but when you start a gang that is illegal.  Gangs are illegal & you know that, Canadians can't be THAT high all the time to not realize such obvious facts.

As far as the murders, you know he did it, don't deny that.  He is also responsible for other murder committed by the gang while it was under his control, there is no denying that.

Did you see video of him before he died?  He didn't look like a nice little 40yr man that wrote children's book, he looked HUGE with his muscular body walking to his death...he didnt even appear to look nice

Please point me to the law that says gangs are illegal.

How do you know the gang was under his control? That is pure speculation.

What does it matter what he looks like? That is totally irrelevant.

Gang in the sense of a street gang that committs crimes against society

Appeals are based on errors produced from the previous hearngs, appeallate courts don't decide guilt, they decide issues of law only.

Most people that write children's books don't look like the stereotypical gang murderer as he does/did

And what happens if the appeal court find a major flaw? Then the lower court reviews the case for possible innocence.

He doesn't even look like the stereotypial gang memeber, let alone a "gang murderer." I have seen and know quite a few gang members, and they don't look anything like him. What you see on T.V. and in hollywood are not real gang members. "Malibu's Most Wanted" does not count.

[hismajesty]

Too bad that, with the exception of Grok and dxoigmn, all of the people that are arguing for the left here aren't even from America. Too bad your opinions won't ever really influence our policy.

Edit: Also, obviously death is one of the best ways to punish people - and it's worked for thousands of years. Why?
Simple.
What's the thing you value the most? Most likely your life. That's why homeless people, even though they have nothing, keep trying to survive even though they serve no purpose and are nothing but a neuscence. Obviously if you threaten to take the thing you value the most away, people will think twice before committing mass murder. Death scares most people, whereas sitting in a cell and getting benefits and stuff probably scares many, but to a lesser degree because they'd still be alive.

iago is going to say "well you shouldn't need to threaten any punishment in order to keep people from doing wrong" as he has in the past, but unfortunately that's not the case in REALITY.

[CrAz3D]

Too bad that, with the exception of Grok and dxoigmn, all of the people that are arguing for the left here aren't even from America. Too bad your opinions won't ever really influence our policy.

Too bad?  I find it a good thing we can't be influenced by outside leftists evils.


I stand corrected, gangs take part in illegal activity, then they become gangs of wanted criminals which, I guess in a twisted way, is illegal.
(In Singapore gangs are illegal though )

The gang

He appealed 3 times it looks like, the Supreme Court found that the lower courts were correct in their judgement & that there was no need for it to be looked at any longer.
He co-founded some of the crips it looks like, they cause crimes/riots, maybe he could/should be charged w/inciting a riot too or as an accomplice to the crimes.


That guy doesn't look mean?

What about that guy?

[iago]

Trust -- I'm not arguing death penalty here. 

And I don't even know why I'm bothering with this, but whatever.

Craz3d, you totally changed what you said.  You said he looked like a "didn't look like a nice little 40yr man that wrote children's book" in the "video of him before he died".  Then you posted pictures of him taken 20 years ago.  That doesn't exactly prove anything. 

Here's a recent picture of him:

He looks to me like a normal person, not a muderous gang member?

But in any case, "IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW HE LOOKS." 

And about the gangs thing -- exactly! It's perfectly fine to have a gang.  But it's illegal to commit crimes (duh).  So he should be in jail for the crimes he committed (which he was), not for starting a gang.  That's what was done, and everybody should be happy. 

[topaz]

He's got a shirt on. Duh.

The organization he founded killed hundreds of people. He deserved to die. It's not even an issue of emotion or revenge, or even justice. He murdered people in cold blood, with little to no remorse for them. If, for example, a person killed another in a fit of passion or rage, then they could be reasonably trusted to rejoin society without repeating the same mistake. However, someone who feels no remorse for the murder of a living being, and would not feel qualms when doing it again, these are such who do not deserve to live. Why allow him to live in prison for the rest of his life? Any angle you look at it, its still state sanctioned murder.

[iago]

He's got a shirt on. Duh.

Haha, my mistake!

The organization he founded killed hundreds of people. He deserved to die. It's not even an issue of emotion or revenge, or even justice. He murdered people in cold blood, with little to no remorse for them. If, for example, a person killed another in a fit of passion or rage, then they could be reasonably trusted to rejoin society without repeating the same mistake. However, someone who feels no remorse for the murder of a living being, and would not feel qualms when doing it again, these are such who do not deserve to live. Why allow him to live in prison for the rest of his life? Any angle you look at it, its still state sanctioned murder.

You're right, that's a tricky situation.  He should be tried and convicted for the crimes he personally committed, which he was. 

I still disagree with him being put to death, but I'm not going to argue that again.  I've said everything I have to say about the subject in other threads. 

[CrAz3D]

Here's a recent picture of him:

He looks to me like a normal person, not a muderous gang member?

Sorry, my second picture wasn't linked correclty.  That second one I showed, I believe, is of him walkin across some court yard to meet his destiny