Fahrenheit 9/11

[Arta]

For those who think it's a load of bull, please post specific objections. I'm posting this because HisMarjesty posted something about it in the Media forum - I wondered what things those on the 'other side' objected to. Please be as specific as possible.

For my part, I thought it contained some interesting things, but that he relied on emotion too much. All those scenes of sobbing family members got trying after a while - he made his point early on with that but then kept doing it for ages.  I think that the Bin Ladens in-bed-with Bush stuff was rather tenuous. I don't doubt that the things he stated as facts were true, but I think it's always possible to put unrelated things together and draw a conclusion that isn't necessarily reflective of reality. That part smacked rather heavily of conspiracy theories and I think he was unwise to persue that approach.

Overall, interesting and thought provoking, but definitely not the be-all-and-end all of documentary filmmaking. Bowling for Columbine was immeasurably better.

[hismajesty]

Just some of the things Michael Moore does erks me, such as using interviews with the disabled military guys at Walter Reed without their permission.

Now, with the movie - I don't like being mislead. The opening Al Gore victory party is said to be held on Election night, but it wasn't.  It was just a 'Victory Rally' on the early morning of Election Day, before polls opened - because he thought he was going to win Florida. After two recounts and a Supreme Court decision, he didn't. It's rather obvious why Moore was mad, he worked for Ralph Nader - who, as done in the past, cost the Democratic candidate the victory.

Hrm, I was going to type everything that I personally found (and I have the movie playing so I could address everything,) but I think This article by David Kopel is more complete.

[quasi-modo]

I have objections about how he misquoted _several_ people out of context badly.

[Forged]

the Democratic candidate the victory.

Maybe we shouldn't blame anyone but the democratic canidate?  If he wasn't a corperate whore he might have got some of those nader votes in florida yes?

[Mitosis]

After watching that move last night, I learned a lot about Bush...It was great movie.  I can't believe that he just sat there when he got news of the Twin Towers being attacked.  "I didn't think that Osama was serious, ohwell let's read a book" he was probably thinking. Took him 7 minutes to get up and do something.

The music the marines would listen to is kind of funny, "Burn mother fucker burn mother fucker burn mother fucker burn mother fucker burn mother fucker". But it's sad because that must get them into the rush of killing

Yeah Arta I think you're right that Michael kept going on about the women and her son dying. Like it's alright to prove the point but it kind of just kept going on, not trying to be dissrespectful to those who died in the war.

After watching this movie I am quite appolled that Bush was re-elected. How could people want him in still?

[Arta]

I have objections about how he misquoted _several_ people out of context badly.

I can believe that. Who did he misquote?

[Stealth]

After watching that move last night, I learned a lot about Bush...It was great movie.  I can't believe that he just sat there when he got news of the Twin Towers being attacked.  "I didn't think that Osama was serious, ohwell let's read a book" he was probably thinking. Took him 7 minutes to get up and do something.

What would your preferred response have been? "OH MY GOD! WE'RE UNDER ATTACK! *rushes from the room*" ?  7 minutes is not a very long period of time. To think that he was doing nothing during those 7 minutes is absurd. My economics teacher, who is an ardent Democrat, isn't bothered by this at all. His rationale is that Bush comes from an old-money New England family, and the tradition there is not to alarm people.

[Mitosis]

Well, if I was Bush I would just leave and get my people to explain to the class that there is something urgent going on. And yes 7 minutes is quite a long time when a crisis such as that is occuring.

[edit] that extra 7 minutes he could have used to get support and maybe less people would have died.

[hismajesty]

Well, if I was Bush I would just leave and get my people to explain to the class that there is something urgent going on. And yes 7 minutes is quite a long time when a crisis such as that is occuring.

[edit] that extra 7 minutes he could have used to get support and maybe less people would have died.

Actually, it was 5 minutes - and there's raw footage to prove this.
Second, one of Bush's aides told him to sit there and stay calm. Did you see thelook on his face?

maybe less people would have died.

Can you honestly be that dumb? What do you expect him to do, run out of the building, rip off his shirt, growl and then run and get on Air Force One, arrive in NYC in five minutes and hold up the twin towers? The emergency response teams in NY would not have done anything differently whether the president was there or not. I'd have done the same thing, sat and collected my thoughts instead of spreading mass panic throughout a bunch of second graders. After he was given time to finish letting the children read to him and collect his thoughts (by the way, the rumor that the book was upside down is false - in addition to that, Bush wasn't even reading.) he gave a press conference from the school, cancelled his agenda for the afternoon, and flew to New York.

[Tuberload]

Well, if I was Bush I would just leave and get my people to explain to the class that there is something urgent going on. And yes 7 minutes is quite a long time when a crisis such as that is occuring.

[edit] that extra 7 minutes he could have used to get support and maybe less people would have died.

There is a whole entourage back at the capital, pentagon, etc... that are trained to handle this sort of a situation without the help of the president. There are pre-planned protocols in place for just about everything imaginable. I think he made the best choice in remaining calm. Freaking out and making a scene is not beneficial in a time like this, because it would have made Bush's persona seem a little less bold, possibly changing the people's opinions about him costing him his recent victory. Politics is all about persuading the majority.

[quasi-modo]

I have objections about how he misquoted _several_ people out of context badly.

I can believe that. Who did he misquote?

The president for one. There were others that I saw on various news like programs... let me do a search.
I think this is a good article: http://www.moorelies.com/news/archives/display.cfm?newsID=279 its more about bowling for columbine though. That was a mockery of a documentary too of course.

Just as the Nazis had Leni Riefenstahl, the Democrats have Michael Moore to spew their propaganda. Riefenstahl's gift was for breathtaking imagery to tell her story, while Moore's talent is that of a comedian.
-Moda Mag

here is some more good stuff
http://www.worldthreats.com/Michael%20Moore/Responding%20to%20Michael%20Moore.htm
http://www.worldthreats.com/Michael%20Moore/Responding%20to%20Moore%20Part%20Two.htm

I could not find all the stuff from a few different people that came out about being misquoted on tv, but I will look some more later.

[Hazard]

My main objective is that every single thing that he has ever said or reported is taken out of context and lacks empirical evidence. Literally, Farenheit 9/11 was clips of things taken totally out of their original context to be distorted to fit his socialist agenda.

[MyndFyre]

[edit] that extra 7 minutes he could have used to get support and maybe less people would have died.

It's really not Bush's job to get more NY fire people into a building in NY.  By the time the towers collapsed, any support from out-of-state was going to be inconsequential to actually helping people out of the towers.

[Kp]

Just from memory, one of the interviews was Moore coming up to a congressman (who had a son in Iraq iirc) and asking him some things.  In the video, the congressman is speechless, but that's only because Moore managed to edit out all of the man's responses.

[hismajesty]

Moore went up to the ones who didn't have sons in Iraq (only one has a child in Iraq).