Proof God Exists?

[j0k3r]

While researching for something else I came across this, and while I still don't understand it after re-reading it a few times, some others of you here may find it interesting.

To be proved: God exists.

Proof by reductio ad absurdum

1. The Fool asserts that God does not exist.

2. What is called "God" is "a being than which no greater can be conceived."

3. The Fool agrees that "a being than which no greater can be conceived" exists in the mind, since he understands the words.

4. To say that "a being than which no greater can be conceived" does not exist is to say that such a being is only an idea--it does not exist in the mind and in reality.

5. But such a being, which exists in the mind alone, is in fact "a being than which a greater can be conceived" since it is greater to exist in both mind and reality than just mind alone.

6. So, the Fool believes that "a being than which no greater can be conceived" is "a being than which a greater can be conceived" which is impossible.

7. Therefore, since "a being than which no greater can be conceived" cannot exist in the mind alone (because that is self-contradictory) such a being must exist in both mind and reality.

8. Therefore, God exists.

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/hilde/Philhandouts/anselm.html

Edit: I'm not saying that this is proof, or that it proves anything, I just found it intriguing.

[quasi-modo]

That made my brain hurt.

[Falcon[anti-yL]]

I'm so confused...

[Hazard]

Although I am a Christian, I believe that Kurt Vonnegut deals with the idea of God very well. He asserts that whether the existence of God is true or false, it is neccessary for the betterment of society.

[Hitmen]

A counterexample was brought up by someone back when Anselm thought up of it, by a man named Gaunilo. He says to think of the greatest, or most perfect, conceivable island. He then says that it is likely that no such island exists. But since it does not exist, it is not the greatest conceivable island, because the greatest conceivable island would exist. Since we can conceive of this greatest island, it must exist. This is, of course, absurd, but no more so than the original.

[Mitosis]

Although I am a Christian,

OMG I'm not the only one!  My whole life I have been brought up to believe in God so it is kind of difficult for me to say if he does or does not.  Sometimes I do think about it and I come to thinking that there is a God but...a lot of the stories we have been told I do not believe.  Like it's just really mysterious and nobody can ever know until they die I guess.  So I don't think there really is any proof.

[j0k3r]

Catholic != Christian
Especially with the statement you just wrote.

[MyndFyre]

Catholic != Christian

/signed.

[Adron]

7. Therefore, since "a being than which no greater can be conceived" cannot exist in the mind alone (because that is self-contradictory) such a being must exist in both mind and reality.

This is interesting. It basically means that you can never fantasize up something that is greater than what exists, because the value of existing is higher than any other value you might think of. By this reasoning, whatever is most existing much be the greatest. By that reasoning, God might be a diamond. Or a rock. Something that really exists very much and is hard to destroy.

[Arta]

That's silly. The entire thing depends on that rather specious definition of God at point 2. If you disagree with that definition, which you should (because it's factually wrong), the whole thing falls apart.

[vonLandenhausen]

To be proved: God exists.
3. The Fool agrees that "a being than which no greater can be conceived" exists in the mind, since he understands the words.

this reminds me on St. Augustus

[MyndFyre]

That's silly. The entire thing depends on that rather specious definition of God at point 2. If you disagree with that definition, which you should (because it's factually wrong), the whole thing falls apart.

/signed.

I really don't think there is a way to "prove" God's existence through logic.  However, I do believe that logic does, in fact, point to God.

[Arta]

Really? I don't. Explain?

[Minux]

Really? I don't. Explain?

Athiest........

[j0k3r]

He's an atheist because he doesn't believe logic points to God? Thanks for wasting my bandwidth, asshole.