its finally here!

[Adron]

Wrong again. You should really check out one of the special's on The History Channel about North Korea they aired during their "Reign of Terror" week. If such a thing was true, why did the Bolshevik uprising in Russia occur during the WWI? Why don't people rise up in North Korea? Because of the extreme government control and the knowledge that if an uprising is merely spoken of that your entire family will be slaughtered.

Of course it's not wrong. Bush managed to strengthen his grip over USA by the attack on the WTC as well as by attacking Iraq. That proves pointing out an evil enemy is a viable tactic for uniting your people.

The Bolshevik uprising was a well planned attack by dedicated people. Those are more likely to happen to a nation in disorder. They are also rarely positive changes. In fact, that was the start of communism in Russia. Oppositely, the end of communism in Russia came with the end of the cold war. Might we conclude that war brings communism and non-war ends communism?

For North Korea, removing the risk of war might not be enough. A strong leader can cling to power for quite some time even without the threat of war to whip people in line. That doesn't mean the threat of war isn't useful for keeping the communist party strong.

[Hazard]

You make it sound like Bush has an iron grip on all of the United States, and it just shows how ignorant you are of the reality of the system.

If pointing out an evil enemy is such a great tactic, why has it so divided our nation?

The point wasn't the type of change that was affected Adron. There was an American uprising int he colonies from a monarchy to a Democracy? That pesky ol' year of 1776? Ring a bell? Might we conclude that war can breed democracy?

Your theory of foreign policy would work in a just society but welcome to real life. This is not your ficticious world of how things should work, it is the real world.

[Hazard]

Read an interesting sign idea from a fellow Protest Warrior today. It was something to the effect of: "When the Liberals throw around phrases like "Anti-War" and "Pro-Choice", what they're trying to say is "Spare Foreign Enemies" and "Kill American Children."

[Adron]

You make it sound like Bush has an iron grip on all of the United States, and it just shows how ignorant you are of the reality of the system.

Not an iron grip, but he hasn't been kicked out yet. That has to mean something.

If pointing out an evil enemy is such a great tactic, why has it so divided our nation?

Because the enemy isn't evil enough. Because the enemy isn't a great enough threat. For the "united by a common enemy" tactic to work really well, the enemy must seem dangerous and evil to everyone, there must be no doubt in anyone. Propaganda can help accomplish that if the enemy isn't evil enough in itself.

The point wasn't the type of change that was affected Adron. There was an American uprising int he colonies from a monarchy to a Democracy? That pesky ol' year of 1776? Ring a bell? Might we conclude that war can breed democracy?

No, you're right, the point wasn't the type of change.

Point #1 was that war hasn't managed to end communism

Point #2 was that war (or more generally a common enemy) can be used to unite a country, making people ignore their internal differences and focus on "the real enemy".

I don't really recognize 1776, but I'll assume it has something to do with independence of America from England. In this case, the choice of democracy and independence from England was made in America before fighting the war. It wasn't a war waged to make someone change their government from monarchy to democracy (in that case, you'd have had to make England change their government).

Your theory of foreign policy would work in a just society but welcome to real life. This is not your ficticious world of how things should work, it is the real world.

Do some research, and I'm sure you'll find that the term "common enemy" isn't something I made up. Having a common enemy is known to unite people.

[Hazard]

Its also been known to divide people. Consider the Nazis in WWII. The US, France, and Britain had a common enemy but only the British and Americans were united while the French seemingly despised both their allies.

[Adron]

Its also been known to divide people. Consider the Nazis in WWII. The US, France, and Britain had a common enemy but only the British and Americans were united while the French seemingly despised both their allies.

The French despised both their allies? What indicates that?

[Hazard]

The French despised the British and American tactics for the liberation of Europe. Check out Patton! and Ike: Countdown to D-Day if you don't understand.

[Adron]

The French despised the British and American tactics for the liberation of Europe. Check out Patton! and Ike: Countdown to D-Day if you don't understand.

Would be easier if you'd summarize it. But sure, despising tactics sounds like something an ally might do. Some people are ready to go further in war than other people.

[Hazard]

Not further, weaker.

The point is that a common goal does not always unite.

[Adron]

Not further, weaker.

The point is that a common goal does not always unite.

Not raping women to incite fear is weaker?

A common goal might not always unite, but more often than not it will.

[Hazard]

War, throughout the ages, tends to dissuade people from drawing your conclusion.

[Adron]

War, throughout the ages, tends to dissuade people from drawing your conclusion.

It does? That's strange. I've never seen any sign of that. War brought soviet and the usa together, fighting nazi germany for example - joined in the fight against a common enemy.

[Hazard]

War set the Soviet Union and the USA apart? Where were you for the Cold War?

[dxoigmn]

War set the Soviet Union and the USA apart? Where were you for the Cold War?

Because the Cold War was a real war!  Anyways, the country was united in the early aftermath of 9/11, there is no doubting that.  It is only recently that the country has become so divided.

[Hazard]

Thanks to the tactics of a CERTAIN group, which will remain nameless, *cough*DEMOCRATS*cough* who desperately want their "power" back.