music!

[Hostile]

Who said metal is about banging heads and commiting suicide? Go have sex with a girl in a ghetto car after playing sax and going to a gym you hippy.

Ok, first the term hippy is derived for drugged up rockers, who also fashion themselves with a certain appearence. If you want me to cover this for you, I don't even like rap that much but I'd pick a majority of its songs then -almost- any rock song that has been made in the last 30 years. Consider the following...
The stereo-types for both Rock and Rap. With rap the commonly promoted drug is weed, with rock its crack and cocaine. With rap the worst act of violence promoted is killing someone, with rock its killing yourself. With rap people enjoy themselves by dancing with styles of grinding(which is beyond fun ), break dancing(also fun but looks cool if anything), some choreographic moves which often look well and are very fun due to it often being in tune with the music... Then you have rock, which has no real dance styles, the closest you'll get to a girl requires you to get her drunk and the mostly consists of you standing there nodding your head and joining a bunch of other idiots and run into each other. The basis of your accusations have no real backup, now do they? :p

[Probe]

i dont think ive mentioned what i listen to. i listen to rock or metal, both are cool, but not punk rock, i hate that.
its best to me probly because of the lyrics, or just because it sounds cool with all the instruments and stuff

[muert0]

With rap the commonly promoted drug is weed, with rock its crack and cocaine.

ever heard the song ghetto dope?

[j0k3r]

Who said metal is about banging heads and commiting suicide? Go have sex with a girl in a ghetto car after playing sax and going to a gym you hippy.

Ok, first the term hippy is derived for drugged up rockers, who also fashion themselves with a certain appearence.

I just threw that in because I felt it needed something at the end.

If you want me to cover this for you, I don't even like rap that much but I'd pick a majority of its songs then -almost- any rock song that has been made in the last 30 years. Consider the following...
The stereo-types for both Rock and Rap. With rap the commonly promoted drug is weed, with rock its crack and cocaine. With rap the worst act of violence promoted is killing someone, with rock its killing yourself. With rap people enjoy themselves by dancing with styles of grinding(which is beyond fun ), break dancing(also fun but looks cool if anything), some choreographic moves which often look well and are very fun due to it often being in tune with the music... Then you have rock, which has no real dance styles, the closest you'll get to a girl requires you to get her drunk and the mostly consists of you standing there nodding your head and joining a bunch of other idiots and run into each other. The basis of your accusations have no real backup, now do they? :p

For one thing, as you said, those are stereotypes, for the most part. Worst with rap is killing someone, I see that as a hell of a lot worse than killing yourself, as you are taking something that doesn't belong to you, and you could do it more than once. You're talking about drug promotion too, funny how in the last couple of years I haven't seen any or heard of anyone metal bands (korn, metallica, soad) promoting anything even to do with drugs. Grinding isn't a stereotype, I have friends that listen to rap, when they get out to clubs or whatever they do grind with other people, however I never said I have anything against that. Rap etc is designed as dance music, I don't understand or agree with those meal heads that go out to places to 'bang their heads' because me or my friends have never done such things. Mosh pits are just fun, if you're too small or weak you should just stay out of it, nobody is forcing you into one.

[Grok]

I so agree.  If we could get rappers to just kill themselves, the world would be a better place.

[jigsaw]

Blacks and Niggers are different. Just like we have Whites and White Trash. (ie: Frank Sinatra, and Kid Rock) (Martin Luther King Jr. and 50 cent.)  Rap projects bad ideas to small uneducated children who most likely do not reside in an afluent area. They grow up thinking drugs, and lying, and hoes are the way to make "scrillah". Not go to school and get a job. If it didnt paint such facades.. it would be alright. But very few, rap songs are acutally influential.  Although in some respects the rapeprs who made it from nothing, to loaded, is some what respectful becuase they actually did it.  Most likely it wasnt an honest way to make money though.  But the culture the clothes the jewelery.. its all wrong take it off you look like a hooligan.  The reason they talk about bling bling and have shows like cribs is because they like to show-off and brag. they dont mhave money so that they can do useful things like support families and stuff. they do it to show off. like sadam did with his palaces, thus.. all black rappers are related to the taliban, al queda, or some other useuless terrorist group. end of story.

[MrRaza]

Blacks and Niggers are different. Just like we have Whites and White Trash. (ie: Frank Sinatra, and Kid Rock) (Martin Luther King Jr. and 50 cent.)  Rap projects bad ideas to small uneducated children who most likely do not reside in an afluent area. They grow up thinking drugs, and lying, and hoes are the way to make "scrillah". Not go to school and get a job.

Yea maybe, but most of the artists saying that are multi-millionaires. Didn't you go to jail for sometime on a drug charge. =/

If it didnt paint such facades.. it would be alright. But very few, rap songs are acutally influential.

I guess you don't listen to much rap, if you tend to get into underground hiphop you'll see that most of it is about topic's that happen in there lives, either robbing someone to feed their children or for the money. But some are about going to school, walking down the street, what happens outside their windows.

 Although in some respects the rapeprs who made it from nothing, to loaded, is some what respectful becuase they actually did it.  Most likely it wasnt an honest way to make money though.

On another note, most critic's in the underground hip-hop scene regard artists like 50 cent, ja rule, and new eminem CD's as them just showing off, most of the real artists that put time and hard work into there rhymes and lyrics aren't really well known but in their projects, i don't really feel like naming them off, but you get the point.

But the culture the clothes the jewelery.. its all wrong take it off you look like a hooligan.  The reason they talk about bling bling and have shows like cribs is because they like to show-off and brag.

I agree with you, although I wish I had their money. Blame MTV for cribs and most of the other crap in the world.

They dont have money so that they can do useful things like support families and stuff. they do it to show off. like sadam did with his palaces, thus.. all black rappers are related to the taliban, al queda, or some other useuless terrorist group. end of story.

Hmm, =/, anyway, One thing I found interesting was how Sean Combs raised one million dollars for charity by running in a marathon. And many other artists raise funds for War Child's Fund and AIDS/STD/HIV cure research.

most of the artists below, most of you probably have never heard but they are part of the underground scene, I just copied this from a textfile that has all the names of the vinvly hiphop albums I own.

Abstract Rude
Abstract Tribe Unique
ACheeka
Acid Reign
Addict Merchants
Aesop Rock
Akolytes
Akrobatik
Algorithm
Alkaholiks (Tha Liks)
All Natural
Aloe Blacc
Ancient Scriptures
Anticon
Antifiction
Army of the Pharaohs
Arsonists
A'Sista
Athletic Mic League
Atmosphere
AuthorNYSE
AWOL One  
Babbletron
Bekay
Belles in Monica
Benjamin Hooks
Binary Star
Black Eyed Peas
Blak ProphetZ
Blestenation
Boom Bap Project
Breakestra
Briz
Brotha Lynch Hung
B-Sin
Buck65
BUG Mafia
Bukue One  
Cabin Fever Crew
Cage
Cannibal Ox
Castro
Charizma
Chase
Chillin Villain Empire
Classified
Cobra Commander
Comel_15
The Coup
Company Flow
Cy Young  
Da Ill One
Damaged Goods
Dangereux
The Danger Room
Dark Tower
Dead Artists
Defined Print
Del The Funky Homosapien
Deluge
Dept. Of Rec.
Dezert Eez
Digs Darklighter
Disflex.6
Dissnfranchised
D.N.A.
Drunken Immortals
Doujah Raze  
The Earthlings
Eaux2mely Survit
8.Bliss
8th Wonder
El-P
Emanon
Endangered Devotion Krew
English Bob
Enhanced Vision Project (EVP)
Exile & Lokey  
Felonius
5th Element Crew
Forest Fires Collective
4th Avenue Jones'
4th Pyramid
Freddie Foxxx  
Gershwin B.L.X.
Grand Master Mind
GroundBasics
Head-Roc
HeadTuchaz
Heiruspecs
Hieroglyphics
Hilltop Hoods
Hobo Junction  
Icon
Idiosyncracy
Immortal Technique
Infinito
Insult2Injury
Isosceles  
Jacky Jasper
Jedi Mind Tricks
Jehst
Jeru The Damaja
J-Live
J. Soze
Kenneth Masters
KHM
Kool Keith
K-Otix
Krazy Race
Kreators
Krucial
Krumb Snatcha  
Lamango
The Last Kind
L.A. Symphony
Latyrx
Lazerus Jackson
Lil' D.V.S.
Little Brother
Little Egypt
Live Human
Living Legends
Lo Kreepaz
Londy
Looptroop
Lootpack
Lord Cyrus
Lost Animals  
MaddPsyense
Madlib
Mad Squirrel
Makeshift Gods
Marc Live
Marvalous
Mass MC
Massmen
Masta Killa
Masterminds
Medaphoar
Medusa
MegaHertz Crew
M.E.P.
Metaphysical
Mexicano777
MF Doom
Micranots
Mike Control
Mike Reka
Moka Only
Mountain Brothers
Mr. Lif
Mudkids
MURS
Mxlpxl
Mystical Poets
Mystik Journeymen  
Nanette Maxine
Necro
Nefarius
NME/TRP
Nobody
Nod Dread
Nonconformists
NonPhixion
Non-Prophets
Noose
Nucci Rey-O  
Oceanic
Oddjobs
Of Mexican Descent
Oh No
Old Dominion
Ominus & DJ S
Omni
Organic Thoughts
Ostrich Head
The Other Emcees  
Pacifics
Paradime
Paranorm
Pasha
Pazdat
P-Chill
People Like Us
People Under The Stairs
Pete Miser
Phokis
Planet Asia
Poizunus Mynd
PR Executive
Princess Superstar
Prophecy
Psychokinetics
Psycho Realm
P-2R
Puah Hedz
Quasimoto  
Ralph Dog
The Recipe
Red Lepus
REO
Reskue
The Restitution
Revolutionary Kingz
Rhajha
Rhyme Over Matter
Rhyme Persuasion
Rhymesayers
Rhythmicru
The Ripyr
R-Jay
Rushya  
Sacred Hoop
Sage Francis
MC Say
Scientific Serpents
See Eye
Set Free
7L & Esoteric
75 Degrees
Shapeshifters
Shermy D
6ix
Sixtoo
Skitzofreniks
Sonar of Mindz
Soulviet Union
Southern Asylum
Southsiderz
Starving Artists Crew
Stickey
Styles From The Under
Styles Of Beyond
Subterraneos
The Sucka MC's
Supernatural
Switch Stance
Swollen Members  
Tabularasa
Tallisman
Tame One
Team Chaos
The1Shanti
Tim Dog
Time Machine
T-Love  
Ubnawkshis
Ugly Duckling
Uncle T
Underclassmen
Vagabond Squad
Verbal
Verbal Threat
Vizion
Wildchild
White Vulture
Wordsworth
Young Csteroc
Zest The Smoker
Zion I  

Underground Rap falls into two categories. It is either hardcore hip-hop that pushes musical boundaries and has lyrics that are more inventive than gangsta cliches, or it is hardcore gangsta rap that wallows in all of the musical and lyrical cliches of the genre. What the two styles have in common is that they have little regard for mainstream conventions, and they celebrate their independent status. Underground rap also tends to be produced for less than hip-hop on major labels, and it often sounds like it.
In the terminology of rap music, Hip-Hop usually refers to the culture — graffiti-spraying, breakdancing, and turntablism in addition to rapping itself — surrounding the music. As a style however, hip-hop refers to music created with those values in mind. Once rap had been around long enough to actually have a history, hip-hop groups began looking back to old-school figures including MCs like Kurtis Blow and Whodini, and DJs like Grandmaster Flash and Afrika Bambaataa. In fact, the latter's Zulu Nation collective sprang up in the late '80s around two of the most notable hip-hop artists, De La Soul and A Tribe Called Quest. With rap music's mainstream breakout during the '90s, dozens of hip-hop artists pointed the way back to the old school, including underground rappers like Mos Def and Pharoahe Monch.

Sorry for the history lesson, but I got to stand up for the music I like. By the way I enjoy rock too and sometimes scratch the lyrics on my turntables.

[jigsaw]

I respect your views and research. I suppose I should hate mainstream rap. It would be wrong of me to label *all* rappers to be retarded. As for the money donating and such. P-diddy donating 1million is like me donating 5 cents to the save-a-tard foundation. Its all relative. its not the thought that counts.. its the underlying motives. I doubt he did it to sleep at night. Publicity. Now I am judging his character. the guy is a piece.

[MrRaza]

For sure, I bet most of the public doesn't even know half the story, he's produced for countless hiphop superstars, Notorious BIG, Mase, Black Rob , Jennifer Lopez(=]), Mario, Benzino,  Busta Rhymes,  Murphy Lee,  Joe Hooker,  Eightball,  G. Dep,  Ja Rule. Just to name a few.

Oh and about rappers going to school, I'll load up and album by All Natural that rhymes about almost the exact same views as you, when i saw your post(2-3 posts up) it made me laugh. You have to hear them to understand, PM if you want a listen, i'll load it up to my ftp later tonight.

[muert0]

i guess jurrasic 5 isnt really underground anymore huh
mainstream rap isnt hiphop or thats the way ive always seen it

[MrRaza]

i guess jurrasic 5 isnt really underground anymore huh
mainstream rap isnt hiphop or thats the way ive always seen it

Jurassic 5 isnt really mainstream to, the only songs I've seen MuchVibe(MuchMusic) and MTV play are "What's Golden" and that's not even half as good as there first LP lol, even their EP. I think they mostly open for other rap artists aswell do shows for universities. ost people don't even realize that Hiphop started with a Rock Backbone, and moved to funk and jazz which influence Hiphop, then from there the Hip-Hop gets divided into alot of other catergories. (edit)And I baught their CD too(/edit)

For example,
Rap, Funk, Urban, Christian Rap,  Acid Jazz,  DJ  Jungle/Drum 'N Bass,  Raggea  Trip-Hop, Gangsta Rap, Freestyle,  Alternative Rap, Bass Music,  East Coast Rap, Hardcore Rap,  Jazz-Rap,  Old School Rap,  Southern Rap,  West Coast Rap,  Pop-Rap,  Breakbeat, Funky Breaks,  British Rap, Comedy Rap,  Contemporary R&B  Dirty Rap,  Foreign Rap,  Party Rap,  Underground Rap, Techno Bass.

There's lots more. Don't get me into Turntablism.
And if you want to check out some artists which paved the way for the scene, search for some of these artists at gracenote.com/music

Aceyalone
Arrested Development
AZ
Erykah Badu
Afrika Bambaataa
Rob Base
Beastie Boys
The Beatnuts
Big Daddy Kane
Black Sheep
Blackstreet
Mary J. Blige
Kurtis Blow
Boogie Down Productions
Foxy Brown
Busta Rhymes
Coolio
Chuck D
Dan the Automator
Das EFX
De La Soul Del
tha Funkee Homosapien
Digital Underground
DJ Clue?
DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince
DJ Kool
DJ Red Alert
DJ Shadow

[j0k3r]

Something else I forgot to bring up, while rappers and such have others make the beat for them and need others to complete the proccess, in metal/rock you play your own instrument, which believe me(I tried learning guitar, stopped taking lessons, not very good but I still play it) is NOT something easy.

[muert0]

yeah all the people putting out rock albums are original...
anyway ever heard of an 808 or lots of rap/hiphop artists make their own music

[MrRaza]

Yes, alot. They might use samples, but thats a different thing. Most of them create beats with drum machines, then use a sample over that to create a song, then they create their own rhyming lyric's and sing to the beat. It's fun to do.

<joke>And they don't like being called rappers, more being called the lyrically gifted.  
</joke>

   By the way, it's not really the "main" singer that does all the work, but a group of people that help each other to make art. They pull together all of their creative talents to create something. For instance, Wu Tang Clan, which has nine members, GZA/Genius  RZA  Ol' Dirty Bastard  Method Man  Raekwon  Ghostface Killah  Inspectah Deck  Masta Killa  U-God. I'll make it simple for you:

GZA/Genius - Producer, Executive Producer
Ol' Dirty Bastard  -  Vocals, Producer
Method Man  -  Vocals, Producer
Raekwon  -  Vocals
Ghostface Killah - Vocals
Inspectah Deck  -  Producer, Mixing    
Masta Killah - Vocals, Performer
U-God  -  Vocals
RZA  -  Arranger, Programming, Producer, Engineer, Mixing

[Adron]

Something else I forgot to bring up, while rappers and such have others make the beat for them and need others to complete the proccess, in metal/rock you play your own instrument, which believe me(I tried learning guitar, stopped taking lessons, not very good but I still play it) is NOT something easy.

Playing an instrument is easy if you're talented. It's just like how programming comes easy for me. I don't believe that rappers have it any easier than rockers.