Issues with photo-radar

[iago]

Around here, at least, photo-radar is becoming increasingly popular.  At many intersections, there are fixed speed/running-red-light detectors, and there are also portable photo-speed detectors which are moved around daily.

Now, I've heard whisperings of a spray-on gloss which causes the picture to show glare and are unable to read the plate, so they can't ticket you.

Now, should this be illegal?  It seems like it's a method of defeating the law, which sounds illegal, but it's just gloss.  

Thoughts?

[j0k3r]

Is weed legal? It seems illegal, but it's just a plant.

[Orillion]

I'm not clued up on the laws about these things in North America, but photo-speed detectors (what i would call a Speed Camera) are quite easy to avoid. Here the law states that if 2 cars are photographed in the same shot - the shot is deemed void. Also the original law was that only the top 10% of speeders were ticketed originally, but thats now changed to everybody.

As for the gloss, I imagine that it probably is 'legal' but the chances are it'd have to be one mega glare to stop your plate from being readable. But have a try and then speed like hell.

[iago]

I'm not clued up on the laws about these things in North America, but photo-speed detectors (what i would call a Speed Camera) are quite easy to avoid. Here the law states that if 2 cars are photographed in the same shot - the shot is deemed void. Also the original law was that only the top 10% of speeders were ticketed originally, but thats now changed to everybody.

As for the gloss, I imagine that it probably is 'legal' but the chances are it'd have to be one mega glare to stop your plate from being readable. But have a try and then speed like hell.

The cameras use flash photography, so it doesn't take much glaze to create a glare.

Is weed legal? It seems illegal, but it's just a plant.

That's completely different, that's like saying that a bullet is just a hunk of lead or whatever it's made of.  

This is intentionally preventing yourself from getting caught for breaking the law, almost like running from the police.  

[Denial]

If it isnt written in the books then it isnt illegal just yet but it will be soon.

[iago]

If it isnt written in the books then it isnt illegal just yet but it will be soon.

But my question is more, how do they make it illegal?  It's a way of defeating the photo radar, but it isn't really doing anything terribly illegal

[Kp]

But my question is more, how do they make it illegal?  It's a way of defeating the photo radar, but it isn't really doing anything terribly illegal

They make it illegal if/when they get annoyed that people are doing it and pass a supplemental law saying you can't do that.  I'd be wary of taking any action that pushes them in that direction, lest they do something stupid and say "It's illegal to have your plate at all difficult to read", which could be broadly interpreted that if it gets too dirty (from normal purposes), you're in trouble.  Before making a decision on this, take into consideration also what effect there might be both ways.  If you use the gloss and it causes visible glare, but not enough to obscure the plate, you're probably in even worse because now they have proof you were trying to evade them, which will probably hurt your case even if it isn't strictly illegal.  (Swing judge going against you, etc.)  Alternately, if you do get caught by this when it isn't your fault, you may be able to argue your way out ("If I stopped for that red light, the guy behind me would have rear-ended me -- as proved by his being in the same shot and right on my tail as I went through").

One of my neighboring states recently decided that it shall be illegal to obscure your license plate -- and the speed-trap police (the ones that enforce the speed limit in its strictest reading, so as to maximize ticket revenue) have seized on this one to jump people who have the plate obscured at all -- even by a dealer supplied plate frame that advertises where you got your car.

[Grok]

But my question is more, how do they make it illegal?  It's a way of defeating the photo radar, but it isn't really doing anything terribly illegal

They make it illegal if/when they get annoyed that people are doing it and pass a supplemental law saying you can't do that.  I'd be wary of taking any action that pushes them in that direction, lest they do something stupid and say "It's illegal to have your plate at all difficult to read", which could be broadly interpreted that if it gets too dirty (from normal purposes), you're in trouble.  Before making a decision on this, take into consideration also what effect there might be both ways.  If you use the gloss and it causes visible glare, but not enough to obscure the plate, you're probably in even worse because now they have proof you were trying to evade them, which will probably hurt your case even if it isn't strictly illegal.  (Swing judge going against you, etc.)  Alternately, if you do get caught by this when it isn't your fault, you may be able to argue your way out ("If I stopped for that red light, the guy behind me would have rear-ended me -- as proved by his being in the same shot and right on my tail as I went through").

One of my neighboring states recently decided that it shall be illegal to obscure your license plate -- and the speed-trap police (the ones that enforce the speed limit in its strictest reading, so as to maximize ticket revenue) have seized on this one to jump people who have the plate obscured at all -- even by a dealer supplied plate frame that advertises where you got your car.

Ah very nice.  Don't put your registration sticker on the license plate and when they pull you over, tell them you were following the letter of the law.

[Hostile]

some states have rediculous laws, but you could probably get away with that unless it strickly says you cant obscure it what so ever with no exceptions, which is doubtful. Older (or something local :\) laws tend to have silly loopholes that you can get out of but even then thats usually after wasting the time with getting pulled over and wasting the time going to the DA or in front of a judge ~

[Kp]

Ah very nice.  Don't put your registration sticker on the license plate and when they pull you over, tell them you were following the letter of the law.

As tempting as that is, I somehow doubt that would work too well.  As I heard it, the intent of the law was to deal with situations much like iago described - people making it difficult for automatic cameras to read plates.

[Grok]

Ah very nice.  Don't put your registration sticker on the license plate and when they pull you over, tell them you were following the letter of the law.

As tempting as that is, I somehow doubt that would work too well.  As I heard it, the intent of the law was to deal with situations much like iago described - people making it difficult for automatic cameras to read plates.

Maybe but if they write bad laws, you can abuse them.  The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld and stressed that laws must be written so that they can be followed.  For example with the word "income" as it relates to taxes, they wrote (paraphrase since don't have document in front of me) that 'income must always mean the same thing for all interpretations under the law'.  If you care, I'll get the accurate quote later.  But this means if the law says you cannot obscure your license plate, then you're only doing your legal duty by removing registration stickers.  They are not part of the license plate.

[Naem]

But this means if the law says you cannot obscure your license plate, then you're only doing your legal duty by removing registration stickers.  They are not part of the license plate.

That isn't really true since most (all?) license plates have specific spaces for you to put your registration sticker ("Place sticker here").

[Hostile]

mine didn't. Maybe I just missed it, perhaps it was right under the insert screw here label.

[mynameistmp]

iago, move West. Government legislation removed automated photo-radar activities from this province =)

[Grok]

But this means if the law says you cannot obscure your license plate, then you're only doing your legal duty by removing registration stickers.  They are not part of the license plate.

That isn't really true since most (all?) license plates have specific spaces for you to put your registration sticker ("Place sticker here").

Most all license plates have places for license plate holders, but that doesn't stop Kp's neighboring state.