Small Complaint

[wut]

First off, I'd like to clarify that this complaint is concerning the logic behind systematically banning users in channel Op [vL] for being "idle"; I am not trying to get myself unbanned herein.

The VL forums seem to provide a place for computer savvy people to help others, with a friendly and constructive demeanor -- when I joined your channel on battle.net, I found it to be quite contrary.  I (prisoner.iana, inside joke name) joined your channel and did not say anything, due to the fact that no one else was talking -- consequently, I was banned in a matter of minutes.  Logically, this method would render users banned when the channel is dead.  Had I said something to the channel every five minutes or so, I probably would have been banned as well, so it's rather inevitable that this happens.  This is effectively keeping users *out* of the channel, which I find counterproductive and unnecessary.  Are the users really disrupting anything by sitting in there, not saying anything?  Would a kick not suffice?

[Grok]

First off, I'd like to clarify that this complaint is concerning the logic behind systematically banning users in channel Op [vL] for being "idle"; I am not trying to get myself unbanned herein.

The VL forums seem to provide a place for computer savvy people to help others, with a friendly and constructive demeanor -- when I joined your channel on battle.net, I found it to be quite contrary.  I (prisoner.iana, inside joke name) joined your channel and did not say anything, due to the fact that no one else was talking -- consequently, I was banned in a matter of minutes.  Logically, this method would render users banned when the channel is dead.  Had I said something to the channel every five minutes or so, I probably would have been banned as well, so it's rather inevitable that this happens.  This is effectively keeping users *out* of the channel, which I find counterproductive and unnecessary.  Are the users really disrupting anything by sitting in there, not saying anything?  Would a kick not suffice?

Hi.  Welcome to the minefield that is Op [vL].

Counterproductive to what?  Kicking would result in spam manifested as rejoins and fast-rejoin-bans.

Are the users really disrupting anything?  No.  The users are members.  Everyone else is a visitor.  Anytime a visitor has to be banned, that is disruptive to the channel, thus justifying the need for banning instead of kicking.  As I already said, kicking would create triple the disruption.

Hope this helps.

[Tuberload]

Actually if you would have said something every once and awhile you would not have been idle-banned. I get banned frequently for idling in their channel, but it serves me right for leaving my bot there. Read their site and all your questions will, well I guess might depending on the person reading it, be answered.

If vL members do not like me responding to these sort of posts I am sorry, but I think this is one of those questions that fits into the "doesn't need to be asked" category.

Edit: Well the question was answered while I was writing mine, sorry for the repeated sarcasm.

[wut]

Hi.  Welcome to the minefield that is Op [vL].

Counterproductive to what?  Kicking would result in spam manifested as rejoins and fast-rejoin-bans.

Are the users really disrupting anything?  No.  The users are members.  Everyone else is a visitor.  Anytime a visitor has to be banned, that is disruptive to the channel, thus justifying the need for banning instead of kicking.  As I already said, kicking would create triple the disruption.

Hope this helps.

Why not simply remove the idle-ban, then?  No kicking, no banning.  It seems to me that the visitor is causing more of a disruption by getting banned then they are by idling.

[Tuberload]

Let's sit down and think about this shall we. They have the first option of doing as you suggest and letting anyone sit in their channel for no reason what so ever except to take up space, or two, they could ban the user for a short period of time. This prevents peoples bot's from auto-rejoining the channel, and frees up space. Besides as you may or may not notice in the near future, the ban is by no means permanent.

[wut]

Let's sit down and think about this shall we. They have the first option of doing as you suggest and letting anyone sit in their channel for no reason what so ever except to take up space, or two, they could ban the user for a short period of time. This prevents peoples bot's from auto-rejoining the channel, and frees up space. Besides as you may or may not notice in the near future, the ban is by no means permanent.

Could they not tone down the insistency with which the bot bans visitors, then?  I stepped away from my computer for no more than 2 hours, leaving to take my dog for a walk.  Upon returning, I found myself in The Void.

[AssassinRC]

I used to be opposed to the system too... after receiving a few spankings from [vL] myself for being idle. But realistically, aside from the kicking and banning -- the outcome is a very member-oriented channel with no spam. It's a good system in my eyes.

[j0k3r]

It's their channel, who says you have any right to it? These boards, like their channel is actually a place for the members, and their clan. The fact that we get to use it is a priviledge, not a right.

[DarkVirus]

It's their channel, who says you have any right to it? These boards, like their channel is actually a place for the members, and their clan. The fact that we get to use it is a priviledge, not a right.

It's about time someone else in this world understands that point. Thanks jok3r You left your computer for 2 hours? Jesus kid, you really need to read the rules before you start complaining. This is a topic that is repeatedly hashed out that really shouldn't even be asked. Many vL members, including myself repeatedly, have discussed with visitors that the severity of punishments or lack there of or simply having no remorse for banning someone is at the discression of the member. The fact that the creators of the forum (namely Grok) and the moderators that take the time, along with non-moderators, to answer the questions concerning varioius topics in this field (Computers duh) and other various misc discussion topics is a priviledge, not a right as stated.

This must be a rather hard concept for most to grasp because personally I'm sick of hearing this same complaint over and over when there really shouldn't be a complaint in the first place because we can do what we want, when we want because vL wasn't created for you, it was created for the members. If you or anyone in the future doesn't seem to get that through their thick skulls, then I think I speak for everyone who's as tired of these posts as I am, that you (whoever you may be that complains (general sense btw) ) are no longer welcome to the forums / channel.

If it persists I'm going to request banning people from the forums that constantly persist this already rehashed topic of probably close to 30 or 40 times.

Hope this helps

[Spht]

If we had no auto-moderation and let everyone in, I'm pretty sure our channel would be full all the time, which is not ideal when a member wants to get in.

[Kp]

Why not simply remove the idle-ban, then?  No kicking, no banning.  It seems to me that the visitor is causing more of a disruption by getting banned then they are by idling.

We could do that, but the last time someone turned it off, I got into the habit of just banning all unknown users every few minutes to keep things tidy.  Trust me, it's better this way.

Could they not tone down the insistency with which the bot bans visitors, then?  I stepped away from my computer for no more than 2 hours, leaving to take my dog for a walk.  Upon returning, I found myself in The Void.

That too, is very possible.  At the request of several members, it's been scaled back to a default that is quite generous for anyone who just needs to "step away for a minute" to read forums, answer nature, answer the phone, etc.  People who are gone for more than an hour are likely to be gone for very long time periods, so they get caught in the idlekick/idleban.  Incidentally, it's your bad luck that you got banned instead of kicked -- it alternates between the two.  There's an upgrade under discussion that might change this.

[hismajesty]

Hi.  Welcome to the minefield that is Op [vL].

That is so true.  

[21:09:14] hismajesty. was banned by [vL] (Stupid people cleansing).
[21:09:24] EibroLovesDomo was banned by [vL] (Stupid people cleansing).

Consider yourself lucky that Cuphead didn't find you first.  

[wut]

It's their channel, who says you have any right to it? These boards, like their channel is actually a place for the members, and their clan. The fact that we get to use it is a priviledge, not a right.

This was not intended to be a demand, more of a suggestion.  Perhaps "complaint" was not the right choice of words.

It's about time someone else in this world understands that point. Thanks jok3r  You left your computer for 2 hours? Jesus kid, you really need to read the rules before you start complaining. This is a topic that is repeatedly hashed out that really shouldn't even be asked. Many vL members, including myself repeatedly, have discussed with visitors that the severity of punishments or lack there of or simply having no remorse for banning someone is at the discression of the member. The fact that the creators of the forum (namely Grok) and the moderators that take the time, along with non-moderators, to answer the questions concerning varioius topics in this field (Computers duh) and other various misc discussion topics is a priviledge, not a right as stated.

This must be a rather hard concept for most to grasp because personally I'm sick of hearing this same complaint over and over when there really shouldn't be a complaint in the first place because we can do what we want, when we want because vL wasn't created for you, it was created for the members. If you or anyone in the future doesn't seem to get that through their thick skulls, then I think I speak for everyone who's as tired of these posts as I am, that you (whoever you may be that complains (general sense btw) ) are no longer welcome to the forums / channel.

If it persists I'm going to request banning people from the forums that constantly persist this already rehashed topic of probably close to 30 or 40 times.

Hope this helps

I fully realize that the channel is there for the members and I *have* read most of the documentation on your website.  On an unrelated note, why are you so hostile?  Calling me a kid and telling me to get things through my "thick skull"?  Are you really so megalomaniacal that this post made you angry?

[Denial]

Like the point is. The channel is theirs if you don't like it just create your own channel? If they didn't have all this idle ban and everything then people would idle there all the time and such for no reason just to idle. It would turn in a channel like mine and the few people that have visited my channel from vl don't like that sort of channel they like a nice quiet place where you can actually think without filtering half the channel.

[Grok]

Maybe wut is right.  We should have a channel for visitors to idle.  I'll talk to the members and see if they agree.

Edit:  That was easy!  Every vL spoke with thought this was a good idea.  To join our visitor channel, get on battle.net and type:

/join The Void

See you there.