Interesting articles about Windows and Linux

[Invert]

Let me first state that this is not a Windows vs Linux post. People that want to argue about that can make their own posts.

I found these articles interesting because they look at using Windows and Linux from an "average Joe's" perspective. So believe it or not, when it comes to using computers and other technological devises most people are in the "average Joe" category.

I also found these articles interesting because I can relate to some experiences when using Linux and comparing it to Windows. Recently, I have installed Ubuntu ( yes, haha, I'm not as elite as you, sorry I don't like staring at a console screen) on my old laptop and was playing around trying to get all the things working like my old wireless card *sigh*. Over the weekend I showed Ubuntu to my dad, he asked me what it was. I told him it's just another OS like Windows. He asked me, why would he use that instead of Windows. The only thing I can reply with was that it's FREE! He said "but I never had to pay for Windows." I told him something along the lines of; that's because we are pirates and ninjas...he tried using Ubuntu and after about half an hour he told me that he did not like it.

I personally feel, based on my experience and knowledge of marketing research, that a free operating system can never succeed in an "average Joe" world. There are many reasons for this but one reason stand out and that is: "average Joe" usability.


http://www.fsckin.com/2008/03/28/ubuntu-hardy-heron-804-release-notes-rewritten-in-plain-english/

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/03/28/all-about-linux-2008-should-microsoft-be-afraid-of-linux/

[Barabajagal]

I've never understood Linux's elitism... Nothing's as user friendly as its Windows counterpart, unless they're multiplatform applications, in which case, they're still no better.
And ya.. wireless support is almost unheard of because the wireless card industry is entirely proprietary and none of them release Lin drivers.

[Banana fanna fo fanna]

linux's hardware support STILL SUCKS.

the fact that you still have to drop into the console to do a bunch of common stuff is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. linux people lie to themselves all the time about this.

in addition, 33% of linux's usability problems come from the fact that open source only attracts one type of person (software developers), 33% of the usability problems come from a lack of attention to detail (80-20 rule; they're too busy making 3d interfaces than making buttons that click and tab properly and labels without misspellings), and 34% of the problems come from the mere fact that it is not Windows (or mac).

[Warrior]

The advantage I see in Linux (I don't use free operating systems, that's a pretty broad category), is that they can be made really slim and you can compile the operating system specifically targetting your hardware (take advantage of multimedia instructions, assumptions based on processor model, etc..)

It's just a really specific target audience, and it definitely doesn't apply to everyone. To be able to be relevant in the desktop arena, they need to completely change their method of thinking (and to an extent, this is albeit slowly happening), so maybe in a few years we'll be able to say something different.

[Kp]

Recently, I have installed Ubuntu ( yes, haha, I'm not as elite as you, sorry I don't like staring at a console screen) on my old laptop and was playing around trying to get all the things working like my old wireless card *sigh*.

That's a lousy way to start working with Linux.   Afaik, wireless is one of the weakest areas.  Even elite users still run into issues with cards that're flaky or just plain broken.

Over the weekend I showed Ubuntu to my dad, he asked me what it was. I told him it's just another OS like Windows. He asked me, why would he use that instead of Windows. The only thing I can reply with was that it's FREE!

That's certainly a good starting reason, but other possible answers include:
It's easier to customize.  I don't mean just the source, but also that apps tend to be more configurable.  Not everyone cares about this, but those that do care will usually love the extra freedom to modify.
It's easier to audit, or find someone who will audit it for you (for a price).  Auditing Windows software requires finding an insider or somebody willing to play in the disassembly.
It's easier to move to different hardware.  Applications mostly store settings in plain files, which can be trivially copied to a new machine.  There're probably outliers that do stupid things like store the data in a binary endian-dependent file, but they're the exception, rather than the norm.  Migrating all the user state (without dragging along system state) of a Windows system is a major nuisance.

He said "but I never had to pay for Windows." I told him something along the lines of; that's because we are pirates and ninjas

Please pay Microsoft the hundreds of thousands of dollars in penalties that you owe for engaging in unauthorized copying of Windows.

linux's hardware support STILL SUCKS.

As noted above, wireless is a bit weak.  Other than that, please try to be more specific.  I've generally had very good experience with all hardware other than wireless.

the fact that you still have to drop into the console to do a bunch of common stuff is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. linux people lie to themselves all the time about this.

Why is it ridiculous?  Have you not gotten over the myth that all administration is better with a non-scriptable GUI front end?  Do you prefer the idea that your administration should be completely contained to the tasks that the GUI writer expected you to need to do?

[Banana fanna fo fanna]

the fact that you still have to drop into the console to do a bunch of common stuff is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. linux people lie to themselves all the time about this.

Why is it ridiculous?  Have you not gotten over the myth that all administration is better with a non-scriptable GUI front end?  Do you prefer the idea that your administration should be completely contained to the tasks that the GUI writer expected you to need to do?

yo bro, peeps aint gonna install shit if they have to remember the flags for the rpm command. sry

[Barabajagal]

It has nothing to do with being "Better" anyway. It's fine to have the more advanced administration commands in Konsole, but there's a lot of common things that don't have a GUI front end. Things the average user would do. It's simply not user friendly yet.

[Newby]

yo bro, peeps aint gonna install shit if they have to remember the flags for the rpm command. sry

<3

[Invert]

That's a lousy way to start working with Linux.   Afaik, wireless is one of the weakest areas.  Even elite users still run into issues with cards that're flaky or just plain broken.

So how should my father start "working" with Linux when all he wants to do is be able to "use" an operating system for photos, music, pictures, and the internet?

Please pay Microsoft the hundreds of thousands of dollars in penalties that you owe for engaging in unauthorized copying of Windows.

Sorry, you are wrong. All my copies of Windows software are legit and have been paid for.

[K]

So how should my father start "working" with Linux when all he wants to do is be able to "use" an operating system for photos, music, pictures, and the internet?

On my machine, I installed Ubuntu, by clicking through the defaults on install.  It auto detected my video card and wireless card.  From there, I can click on Applications->Internet->Firefox Web Browser to access the internet, or Thunderbird or Evolution to access my email.

I can connect my digital camera and use the camera wizard to copy pictures to the "Pictures" folder in my home directory. I can manage them with the Applications->Graphics->F-Spot Photo Manager application.  It's not rocket science.

I can double click on a music file to play it or manage my collection in Rhythmbox.  Any necessary codecs are installed the first time a file of that type is played.

Windows XP failed to auto detect my wireless card and I had no internet access.  How is your father going to download and install wireless drivers with no internet connection? How does he know what type of card he has or what drivers he needs?

yo bro, peeps aint gonna install shit if they have to remember the flags for the rpm command. sry

<3

RPM? Deb? What's that? I can just use Applications->Add/Remove Programs or System->Package Manager to install applications.  I realize that's less ideal than having to visit some third party website and run arbitrary executables with administrative privileges, but I get by. 

[Warrior]

RPM? Deb? What's that? I can just use Applications->Add/Remove Programs or System->Package Manager to install applications.  I realize that's less ideal than having to visit some third party website and run arbitrary executables with administrative privileges, but I get by. 

To compare Apples to Apples, Vista has a priviledge escalation mechanism to allow lesser priviledged users to do everyday things and acts as an additional security net for these types of attacks.

Unless of course, you want to compare a Linux Distro from five years ago to Windows XP, which would be the fair comparison.

[iago]

RPM? Deb? What's that? I can just use Applications->Add/Remove Programs or System->Package Manager to install applications.  I realize that's less ideal than having to visit some third party website and run arbitrary executables with administrative privileges, but I get by. 

To compare Apples to Apples, Vista has a priviledge escalation mechanism to allow lesser priviledged users to do everyday things and acts as an additional security net for these types of attacks.

Unless of course, you want to compare a Linux Distro from five years ago to Windows XP, which would be the fair comparison.

I don't see how that matters. When you're installing an executable on Windows, you're elevating it anyways.

Let me first state that this is not a Windows vs Linux post.

You're joking, right?

[UserLoser]

the whole world (someone will bitch about this, so let's say a HUGE majority) will always use windows in schools and small businesse..  everyone knows how to use a computer that has microsoft on it.  i never even seen a computer in person that had linux on it...nobody i know use it except you "internet people" and i take computer science classes at school.  hardly anyone seems to use it cause they realize the whole open sourced OS stuff is lame-o and windows is always advancing and having newer better software out the next year.  stick your average high school girl on they will be lost

so what reasons do you guys choose to use linux compared to windows?  what does linux do that windows doesn't?


I personally feel, based on my experience and knowledge of marketing research, that a free operating system can never succeed in an "average Joe" world. There are many reasons for this but one reason stand out and that is: "average Joe" usability.

I personally feel, based on my experience and knowledge of marketing research, that a free operating system can never succeed in an "average Joe" world. There are many reasons for this but one reason stand out and that is: "average Joe" usability.

yes sir, that sounds correct to me.  an average joe doesn't even know what linux is.

[iago]

the whole world (someone will bitch about this, so let's say a HUGE majority) will always use windows in schools and small businesse..  everyone knows how to use a computer that has microsoft on it.  i never even seen a computer in person that had linux on it...nobody i know use it except you "internet people" and i take computer science classes at school.  hardly anyone seems to use it cause they realize the whole open sourced OS stuff is lame-o and windows is always advancing and having newer better software out the next year.  stick your average high school girl on they will be lost

Hmm, I've graduated from university, and worked three jobs (small company, multinational corporation, and government), and all three uses TONS of Linux. Not on the desktops, of course, but as servers it's far more common than alternatives.

But you hit a good point about everybody knowing how to use computers with "microsoft" on it -- a lot of people I know growing up had Windows installed on their computers, usually pirated versions. However, these people don't want to move to Vista because of Microsoft's anti-piracy campaigns, so they're starting to look at other OSes. I think that's going to hurt them in the future, since a lot of younger people won't be as accustomed to Windows.

[UserLoser]

the whole world (someone will bitch about this, so let's say a HUGE majority) will always use windows in schools and small businesse..  everyone knows how to use a computer that has microsoft on it.  i never even seen a computer in person that had linux on it...nobody i know use it except you "internet people" and i take computer science classes at school.  hardly anyone seems to use it cause they realize the whole open sourced OS stuff is lame-o and windows is always advancing and having newer better software out the next year.  stick your average high school girl on they will be lost

Hmm, I've graduated from university, and worked three jobs (small company, multinational corporation, and government), and all three uses TONS of Linux. Not on the desktops, of course, but as servers it's far more common than alternatives.

But you hit a good point about everybody knowing how to use computers with "microsoft" on it -- a lot of people I know growing up had Windows installed on their computers, usually pirated versions. However, these people don't want to move to Vista because of Microsoft's anti-piracy campaigns, so they're starting to look at other OSes. I think that's going to hurt them in the future, since a lot of younger people won't be as accustomed to Windows.

still in college, but i just take C++ classes nothing else so far.  haven't even heard of linux in forever until i saw this thread.