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Sqrt(-1)

Started by Joe[x86], January 29, 2006, 04:10 PM

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Rule


rabbit

Quote from: dxoigmn on February 07, 2006, 07:56 PM
Quote from: rabbit on February 07, 2006, 07:07 PM
Hm.

e^(pi)i = -1
e^(pi)i = i^2
0! = 1 = -(i^2)
e^(pi)i = -(0!)
e^(pi)Sqrt(-(0!)) = -(0!)
ln(e^(pi)Sqrt(-(0!))) = ln(-(0!))
(pi)Sqrt(-(0!)) = -ln(0!)
(pi)Sqrt(-(0!)) = -(0)
(pi)i = 0

Somehow I find that wrong... o well.

Um.. ln(-(0!)) != -ln(0!).  ln(-(0!)) = ln(|-(0!)|) + i*arg(-(0!)) = ln(-(0!)) + i*arg(-(0!)) = i*pi
HAH!  I forgot logs don't like negatives...which explains why I confused myself...
Grif: Yeah, and the people in the red states are mad because the people in the blue states are mean to them and want them to pay money for roads and schools instead of cool things like NASCAR and shotguns.  Also, there's something about ketchup in there.

Rule

Quote from: rabbit on February 08, 2006, 09:05 PM
Quote from: dxoigmn on February 07, 2006, 07:56 PM
Quote from: rabbit on February 07, 2006, 07:07 PM
Hm.

e^(pi)i = -1
e^(pi)i = i^2
0! = 1 = -(i^2)
e^(pi)i = -(0!)
e^(pi)Sqrt(-(0!)) = -(0!)
ln(e^(pi)Sqrt(-(0!))) = ln(-(0!))
(pi)Sqrt(-(0!)) = -ln(0!)
(pi)Sqrt(-(0!)) = -(0)
(pi)i = 0

Somehow I find that wrong... o well.

Um.. ln(-(0!)) != -ln(0!).  ln(-(0!)) = ln(|-(0!)|) + i*arg(-(0!)) = ln(-(0!)) + i*arg(-(0!)) = i*pi
HAH!  I forgot logs don't like negatives...which explains why I confused myself...

Don't like negatives? 

Yoni

Quote from: rabbit on February 07, 2006, 07:07 PM
ln(e^(pi)Sqrt(-(0!))) = ln(-(0!))
(pi)Sqrt(-(0!)) = -ln(0!)
This transformation is the wrong one.
1) ln(e^pi X) != pi * X, more like pi + ln(X).
2) ln(-X) != -ln(X), more like ln(X) + ln(-1).

And the correct value of ln(-1) is pi*i, of course.

rabbit

Quote from: Rule on February 08, 2006, 09:49 PM
Don't like negatives? 
I've always been taught that ln(t) is undefined for negative values of t, is this wrong?
Grif: Yeah, and the people in the red states are mad because the people in the blue states are mean to them and want them to pay money for roads and schools instead of cool things like NASCAR and shotguns.  Also, there's something about ketchup in there.

Rule

#20
z = e^(w)

w = u + iv

z = e^(u)e^(iv)

x + iy = e^(u)e^(iv)

re^(itheta) = e^(u)e^(iv)

r = e^(u)  --->   u = log r
Also,  v = arg (z)

Therefore  log (x+iy) = log(z) =  log (r) + iarg(z) = log(|z|) + iarg(z)

Therefore log(-1) = log(1) + ipi + 2*pi*k*i, where k is any integer.

The principal branch of log (-1) = log(1) + ipi

Although my comment about the "principal branch" may seem trivial, "branch chasing" of multi-valued functions becomes a very important topic in analysis.


Yoni

#21
Although, we like to define logarithms unambiguously by imposing the restriction that 0 <= Im[log(z)] < 2*pi.

Edit: Im[], not arg() ;)

Rule

Quote from: Yoni on February 11, 2006, 11:11 AM
Although, we like to define logarithms unambiguously by imposing the restriction that 0 <= Im[log(z)] < 2*pi.

Edit: Im[], not arg() ;)

I think the most often used branch of log(z) is the "Principal Branch,"
Log(z) = log(|z|) + iArg(z),  where Arg(z) (capital 'a') takes the argument of z
from the set (-pi, pi].  I believe this is also a standard in computer science.  One of the reasons we like the argument in (-pi, pi] is because it allows us to define 1-1 analytic inverse trigonometric functions, that take the values we're used to in real analysis. 

But there are problems with just using this branch of log(z); this principal branch has a branch cut along the negative real axis (it isn't analytic there).  If we want to find the derivative of a complex function at z = x < 0, we have to choose another branch of log. 

Also, for various applications, we may want a branch of a function like
(z^2-1)^1/2  analytic outside of the circle |z-i/2| = 1, etc.  An immediate application of this sort of thing is "Keyhole Contour Integration": if you want to find say "Integral(0, 1) x^(alpha-1) * (1-x)^(-alpha) dx"  0< alpha < 1, you'd start by finding a branch of z^(alpha-1)(z-1)^(-alpha) with a cut on the real axis from 0 to 1.

Here are some fairly well written articles on these topics:

Multivalued Functions
Complex Integration
Integration of Multi-valued Functions
Keyhole integration ("residue at infinity")

Not really quite as related, but you might find this interesting after reading the notes titled "Complex Integration":
Tricks for summing series