The Economic Tsunami -- Sooner Than You Think?

[iago]

I don't pretend to understand economics, but:

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Apr05/Whitney0411.htm

[Adron]

Interesting numbers, but sounds like just a lot of doomsday sayings.. Sure, it would be nice if the Euro became the new major currency reference of the world, and that may well happen, but I do not see why that would crush the US as he indicates. Canada is doing fine without Canadian dollars being the major trade currency?

And for the national debt, the US doesn't have a good record of paying debts before. They would probably just avoid payment rather than go bankrupt.

[Ishbar]

It seems entirely bogus, it's been what, 8 months since that article posted? Any who, my point is, the decline of the economy is going to be a lot slower than as fast as Mike makes it out to be. So I don't think the U.S. will be circling into another depression anytime soon, the only thing that could significantly effect our Economy would be a natural disaster, or public strikes nation wide: similar to what's happening in New York right now. Another thing would be a potential war, nothing like what's with Iraq, but something that interferes with Exports and Imports. I couldn't right now think of any Nation we severely depend on, but it's always a future possibility, just like the "Oil Crisis"

[shout]

I agree with Adron: Doomsday sayings.

[Grok]

I have not read the article to which the link goes. </disclaimer>

However, one glaring reason that America cannot go into another depression is we have a false economy.  Our currency is not backed by anything except the promise that Americans will work however long it takes to repay any debt which the federal government incurs.  Hello, knock knock, does anyone know the term Endentured Servitude?  This is illegal in the United States except as practiced by the government on its citizens.

Are you an endentured servant?  Most likely, yes.  Does your government require you to pay 15%-40% of your wages each year to pay off your government's debts?  Have they fed you enough bullshit that you will even defend the practice and call it patriotism and serving your country?  Are you proud of the shackles of slavery you wear and get mad when someone calls you a slave, then argue that its something else entirely?

America will not go broke while we have hundreds of millions of slaves available to pay off any debt.

[MyndFyre]

I have not read the article to which the link goes. </disclaimer>

However, one glaring reason that America cannot go into another depression is we have a false economy.  Our currency is not backed by anything except the promise that Americans will work however long it takes to repay any debt which the federal government incurs.  Hello, knock knock, does anyone know the term Endentured Servitude?  This is illegal in the United States except as practiced by the government on its citizens.

Are you an endentured servant?  Most likely, yes.  Does your government require you to pay 15%-40% of your wages each year to pay off your government's debts?  Have they fed you enough bullshit that you will even defend the practice and call it patriotism and serving your country?  Are you proud of the shackles of slavery you wear and get mad when someone calls you a slave, then argue that its something else entirely?

America will not go broke while we have hundreds of millions of slaves available to pay off any debt.

QFT.  I know a lot of times Grok and I don't agree....  but this isn't one of those times.

[Invert]

I have not read the article to which the link goes. </disclaimer>

However, one glaring reason that America cannot go into another depression is we have a false economy.  Our currency is not backed by anything except the promise that Americans will work however long it takes to repay any debt which the federal government incurs.  Hello, knock knock, does anyone know the term Endentured Servitude?  This is illegal in the United States except as practiced by the government on its citizens.

Are you an endentured servant?  Most likely, yes.  Does your government require you to pay 15%-40% of your wages each year to pay off your government's debts?  Have they fed you enough bullshit that you will even defend the practice and call it patriotism and serving your country?  Are you proud of the shackles of slavery you wear and get mad when someone calls you a slave, then argue that its something else entirely?

America will not go broke while we have hundreds of millions of slaves available to pay off any debt.

That article above has as much value as you going to a fortune teller to ask her for financial advice.

Grok is also trying to be a fortune teller and tell us that the United States cannot go into another depression.

The U.S. took away the government backing of the dollar with an actual gold supply in 1971 so our currency is backed by nothing. What Grok did not tell you is that every major international currency has followed the U.S. in taking away the backing of their currency by gold. Just like the U.S. currency every other major international currency is backed by nothing.

The only reason currency has any value is because we have a system in which people are known to accept these pieces of paper or metallic coins in return for something valuable. It is not because Grok has an unsupported theory that the citizens of the United States are willing to work "however long it takes to repay any debt which the federal government incurs". As the Nobel Prize-winning economist Milton Friedman puts it, "the pieces of green paper have value because everybody thinks they have value."

I believe that the United States can easily go into another depression. Foreign trade has been bad for the U.S. economy, because cheap imports from abroad have hurt wages and cost jobs here at home. If we do not create better international trade policies we will end up importing more goods than we export. Free trade is a fine balance between expanding exports and costing the U.S. jobs. Once we hit that mark where we think the buck is not worth our work that is when we fall into depression.

Now about Groks attack on the government...again.

Hello, knock knock. I don't know what "Endentured Servitude" is but I know that Indentured Servitude is not practiced by the U.S. government on its citizens because we all have the freedom to stop working anytime we want or move to a place that does not require you to pay any percent of your wages to the government.

Grok, very dramatic of you with the whole shackles and slavery thing, made me chuckle.
How about we the people take responsibility for choosing our system of government and our government itself. Grok talks about the "government's debts" when in reality they are our debts. We the people ran up our credit card bill. I'm sure Grok likes to drive down a nice paved government built highway, I'm sure Grok likes sending his daughter to a free public school, I'm sure Grok likes to be protected by the military, I'm sure Grok likes to be protected by the police and the firefighters. I can go on and on. I hope that Grok understands that all those things did not just magically appear out of nowhere and that we the people pay for all that with our credit card and we the people need to pay the credit card bill. I will also acknowledge that there is a lot of waste that occurs in the government and I have a big problem with that but that's a whole other subject.

Grok, stop blaming the government and the system because you and I and the rest of the citizens in this country put this system in place and put this government in place. What you are doing is pointing a finger and blaming an entity that you created. You need to take responsibility.

Ok I'm tired of writing now, this is already way too long. I hope you understand my point.

[Grok]

What gives the dollars value is the loans and interest rates between the federal government and the private central banks.  Do banks loan money without promise of repayment?  No way.  The promise of repayment by the federal government is that United States citizens will work to repay those debts.  It is not "backed by nothing".

I don't have the exact year but I'm sure it wasn't 1971.  More like 1931 or so when we left the gold standard, and about 1965 when we left the silver standard and went to the current "partial-slavery" standard.  If the precise years really matter I will look them up after the Christmas holiday.

---
Indentured servitude is indeed practiced by the federal government.  They pass along debts from previous generations to be worked off by the next.  You are right in saying that any one individual may stop working, but look at what that buys them -- jail.  Unemployed people unable to pay their debts end up in jail in the United States.

I'm glad the shackles reference was found to be a joke by you, but its not my joke.  Thomas Jefferson said that.  Yes, that Thomas Jefferson.

Taking responsibility is precisely what I am doing by educating you on the differences between what our country is today and what it is supposed to be by the founders.  I am wholly willing to study analyze and learn, and pass that knowledge on to others, in hopes that we build critical mass for restoration of liberty.  We did not put this system in place.  The system we put in place had 3 separate and distinct branches of government with checks and balances on each other.  That was removed when Roosevelt usurped power in the executive branch by taking over the judiciary.  How did he do this?  He did not like the rulings the Supreme Court was handing down against him.  Are you ready for this?  So he found "nothing illegal" about adding sufficient justices to the court so that he owned it.  That's right, he stacked the court with his people and since that time, no Supreme Court has reversed ANY ruling by the Executive Branch.  Don't you find that scary in the least?  That is not the system of government that "we the people" installed, but it is the one you are staunchly defending.  Now today, we have another president who defends himself by saying "there is nothing illegal about what we are doing".... He isn't arguing that it is wrong, unethical, immoral, simply that it falls within the bounds of law.

---
Something I was mulling over in the shower this morning ...
Defending and securing of freedom enables liberty.
Defending freedom alone does not necessarily provide liberty.

[Invert]

"In 1971, President Nixon removed us from the gold standard."
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_99/hickel111399.html

and

"The gold standard survived, with several modifications, until 1971."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_American_dollar

I would appreciate if you do some research before passing me off as an idiot.
I will post a reply to you later but you should check out the links above. Merry Christmas.

[Grok]

I would appreciate if you do some research before passing me off as an idiot.

You know, you have just now convinced me of one thing in particular.  It is impossible to have a nonnegative public discourse with you.

Nowhere in my last post did I address you as an idiot, pass you off as an idiot, or use the term idiot.  Nor did I use any althernate definition of idiot, come at idiot from a tangent, or imply anything about your intelligence in one way or another.

I am quite sure after reading it several times that I even addressed at least one of your points and said you were right, giving respect to and acknowledging your point and position.  Such respect is clearly unidirectional.

I will no longer try until I see some significant attempt from you to engage in useful intellectual discourse about the subject material and stop resorting to mud slinging.  I do not know why you feel there is no alternative to mud slinging, but you have demonstrated no capacity to do without it.

Good luck to you.

[Invert]

I would appreciate if you do some research before passing me off as an idiot.

You know, you have just now convinced me of one thing in particular.  It is impossible to have a nonnegative public discourse with you.

Nowhere in my last post did I address you as an idiot, pass you off as an idiot, or use the term idiot.  Nor did I use any althernate definition of idiot, come at idiot from a tangent, or imply anything about your intelligence in one way or another.

I am quite sure after reading it several times that I even addressed at least one of your points and said you were right, giving respect to and acknowledging your point and position.  Such respect is clearly unidirectional.

I will no longer try until I see some significant attempt from you to engage in useful intellectual discourse about the subject material and stop resorting to mud slinging.  I do not know why you feel there is no alternative to mud slinging, but you have demonstrated no capacity to do without it.

Good luck to you.

What pulls me into the "mud slinging" with you is that when you write something you have this supercilious attitude where you are so sure you are right and because you are older you should be considered wiser and more knowledgeable than any of us.

This quote is a perfect example: "I don't have the exact year but I'm sure it wasn't 1971."
Also the arrogant comments in the beginning of some of your posts where you tell someone that you are about to "educate" them.

You are wrong, it is not impossible to have a nonnegative discussion with me as long as you drop that snobby attitude.

Good luck to you.