al-Zarqawi - "War on Democracy"

[Adron]

Religion is evil?!  That has to one of the most lame-brained comments I've ever read!  People are evil, all people.  To what extent of which people are evil varies...some people can be more closed minded & then use religion as a tool...then there are a few people, that I didn't know exsisted until now, that believe religion is evil.  These people that believe something that is so pure can be so vile are the true satanic people of the world, not Bush who supports his country & his home-state schools.

Ever heard that religion is an opiate for the people? A way to calm the masses and make them follow your tune whenever you blow the pipe? A way to make people live happily in slavery because they're promised a better afterlife? A way to make a man kill his neighbour?

Those are common for many religions. A way to make people follow instead of thinking can't be a good thing.

[quasi-modo]

Religion is evil?!  That has to one of the most lame-brained comments I've ever read!  People are evil, all people.  To what extent of which people are evil varies...some people can be more closed minded & then use religion as a tool...then there are a few people, that I didn't know exsisted until now, that believe religion is evil.  These people that believe something that is so pure can be so vile are the true satanic people of the world, not Bush who supports his country & his home-state schools.

Ever heard that religion is an opiate for the people? A way to calm the masses and make them follow your tune whenever you blow the pipe? A way to make people live happily in slavery because they're promised a better afterlife? A way to make a man kill his neighbour?

Those are common for many religions. A way to make people follow instead of thinking can't be a good thing.

Making people follow instead of thinking? I thought about my options and chose religion.

Even if I am wrong and you are right what do I have to lose? I will be living a great life, and a moral life, and if I am wrong then maybe I just die. If you are wrong then you could be facing an unhappy afterlife.

Your view of religion is very warped 
Your post can almost be interpreted as you calling all religious people fools.

[Arta]

I don't really care if it was a papal or a biblical thing, it's still religion. It's still illustrative of the way in which any religion, or religious text, can be interpreted (or, indeed, misinterpreted!) to justify evil things.

As for the reason behind the crusades, that varies according to which crusade you are referring to. In any event, religion was a major factor in all of them - if for no other reason than people were motivated by their religion, as well as any political factors, to undertake them. In the first crusade, many knights saw themselves as holy warriors, and undertook the crusade - which at that time, was just a 'pilgrimage' ('crusade' was a term coined in the 12th century) - for spiritual reasons rather than material ones. Upon reaching the largely muslim Jerusalem, they killed just about everyone, including some Christians already living there (mistakenly or otherwise).

Anyway, the point is: any religion can be used to justify evil, not just Islam.

[quasi-modo]

I don't really care if it was a papal or a biblical thing, it's still religion. It's still illustrative of the way in which any religion, or religious text, can be interpreted (or, indeed, misinterpreted!) to justify evil things.

As for the reason behind the crusades, that varies according to which crusade you are referring to. In any event, religion was a major factor in all of them - if for no other reason than people were motivated by their religion, as well as any political factors, to undertake them. In the first crusade, many knights saw themselves as holy warriors, and undertook the crusade - which at that time, was just a 'pilgrimage' ('crusade' was a term coined in the 12th century) - for spiritual reasons rather than material ones. Upon reaching the largely muslim Jerusalem, they killed just about everyone, including some Christians already living there (mistakenly or otherwise).

Anyway, the point is: any religion can be used to justify evil, not just Islam.

But we were originally talking about biblical justification / justification based on the koran. The pope is not a religious text that can be misinterpreted. He is a man who (IMO) can be corrupted and some follow him and rever him as being holy (some believe him to be infaulable), but he is not some book that can be twisted in order to justify a cause.

Note* Not every christian follows the pope because there was a much needed reformation.

[j0k3r]

Note* Not every christian follows the pope because there was a much needed reformation.

Catholic != Christian, no Christian follows the pope.

[quasi-modo]

Note* Not every christian follows the pope because there was a much needed reformation.

Catholic != Christian, no Christian follows the pope.

I did not make any remarks like that because I did not want to offend any forum catholics  , But I am not going to argue against you

[Adron]

Even if I am wrong and you are right what do I have to lose? I will be living a great life, and a moral life, and if I am wrong then maybe I just die. If you are wrong then you could be facing an unhappy afterlife.

Just theoretically, if you assume that some religion is correct, there's no particular reason that your religion would be. It's quite possible that you have actually offended the real god by having had other gods before him, and that your choice will have you facing a terrible afterlife.

A moral life can mean anything. It could mean that you make sure to stone any woman you see outside not wearing a burka.

Don't do things because some religion tells you to. Do them because you have considered the physical hard consequences of / reasons for doing or not doing so.

Your view of religion is very warped 
Your post can almost be interpreted as you calling all religious people fools.

I almost do... I consider most religious people fools.

Any that do what their religion tells them just because it tells them to are fools. Or that do what their religion tells them to because there's a reward promised in the next life / afterlife / ...

[dxoigmn]

Don't do things because some religion tells you to. Do them because you have considered the physical hard consequences of / reasons for doing or not doing so.

I agree.  This is a major problem I have with religion and religious people.  I don't need some book to tell me how to live a moral life.

[Hazard]

Are you so sure that morals would survive as they have without religions?

[j0k3r]

I feel that regardless of if I believed in God or not I would go to church, there are life lessons to be learned. Everytime I leave a service sunday morning I feel as though I have learned something that has helped me, or will one day help me. A great example would be today, he spoke about anger and dealing with it. On friday a friend of mine did something to piss me off, alot, I woke up saturday and was pissed until mid afternoon when I did something stupid to make me feel better, had I not been angry I wouldn't have done it. Regardless of it being a bible teaching, I find everyone should listen and heed the advice.

Maybe I'm ignorant, maybe my church is an exception, maybe it's all right, what you get out of life is what you put into it and I don't see how I can go wrong with this.

[DOOM]

Ever heard that religion is an opiate for the people? A way to calm the masses and make them follow your tune whenever you blow the pipe? A way to make people live happily in slavery because they're promised a better afterlife? A way to make a man kill his neighbour?

Those are common for many religions. A way to make people follow instead of thinking can't be a good thing.

You know that Communism and Fascism were both against religion right?  And how many millions of people did those two idealogies manage to kill?  A few more than Christianity ever did.

[Adron]

You know that Communism and Fascism were both against religion right?  And how many millions of people did those two idealogies manage to kill?  A few more than Christianity ever did.

There could be many reasons for how many people a movement end up killing. I'm also not sure what numbers you are referring to, as far as I know Christianity may well have killed more people. And even if it didn't kill more in absolute numbers, that could just be because there weren't as many people around to kill.

[Hazard]

Fascism wasn't strictly anti-Religious, Hitler was a Christian.

[Adron]

I feel that regardless of if I believed in God or not I would go to church, there are life lessons to be learned. Everytime I leave a service sunday morning I feel as though I have learned something that has helped me, or will one day help me. A great example would be today, he spoke about anger and dealing with it.

There's nothing wrong with that. If you're getting useful psychological advice, use it. Many priests are quite good with the human mind. After all, to control people's minds, they have to be. Things don't have to be wrong just because a priest says them. They just don't necessarily have to be right either. Listen, understand, and use whatever parts make sense.


Just don't trust religion more than common sense. Evil example:

You lost friends in the tsunami disaster. You go talk to a priest about why things happen and he says everything that happens is the will of god, there's some hidden purpose to it. Well, perhaps that'll make you happier.

Then you follow that advice, and go lose your paycheck betting on dice, thinking: Ah, everything that happens is the will of god. He wanted me to lose my paycheck.

And then you go on to lose your house rolling dice against me. Strangely enough I keep rolling 6's all the time. But you think: Ah, god wants me to lose my house, he's creating a miracle with those dice coming up all 6's all the time.

Or, perhaps you use common sense instead of religion

[quasi-modo]

I feel that regardless of if I believed in God or not I would go to church, there are life lessons to be learned. Everytime I leave a service sunday morning I feel as though I have learned something that has helped me, or will one day help me. A great example would be today, he spoke about anger and dealing with it.

Just don't trust religion more than common sense. Evil example:

You lost friends in the tsunami disaster. You go talk to a priest about why things happen and he says everything that happens is the will of god, there's some hidden purpose to it. Well, perhaps that'll make you happier.

Then you follow that advice, and go lose your paycheck betting on dice, thinking: Ah, everything that happens is the will of god. He wanted me to lose my paycheck.

And then you go on to lose your house rolling dice against me. Strangely enough I keep rolling 6's all the time. But you think: Ah, god wants me to lose my house, he's creating a miracle with those dice coming up all 6's all the time.

Or, perhaps you use common sense instead of religion

My views on this: God knows everything that is going to happen before it happens right? Yet it was your actions that made you loose the money, the fact that you lost it might have been in the will of God (he might have been trying to tell you not to gamble), but obviously the Tsunami was not the fault of the people who died in it directly. There are some differences here.