Free Market vs Socialism

[dxoigmn]

Lack of a minimum wage drives up numbres of people who can't afford to feed and clothe their children.

No. I thought we talked about this already... but maybe that was another forum. If we were to take away the price floor right now, the market would drop down to its equilibrium levels assuming they are lower and there would be a certain ammount of deflation and then we would end up where we started but with more valuble currency.

I doubt it.  Today, a single person couldn't live solely on minimum wage.

There would be an adjustment period. I am not saying it would happen over night. But if we dropped out min wage we would end up about where we started. It would be like back in the day when you could buy coke for $0.10 though. There would be some deflation to say the least.

I still doubt it.  If minimum wage is such an inflation, then why it a person working full-time at minimum wage is still below the poverty line at just under $11,000 a year?  That doesn't make sense.  And it's not some nice linear equation where if minimum wage goes up $2 then Company A can only hire 3 people instead of 5.  What do you say to the CEO who is making $11 million?  Couldn't he sacrifice a few bucks to keep those people?

Lack of a minimum wage drives up numbres of people who can't afford to feed and clothe their children.

No. I thought we talked about this already... but maybe that was another forum. If we were to take away the price floor right now, the market would drop down to its equilibrium levels assuming they are lower and there would be a certain ammount of deflation and then we would end up where we started but with more valuble currency.

I doubt it.  Today, a single person couldn't live solely on minimum wage.

Depends on where you live really.  In San Antonio if you can  get a roommate and work 40hours a week you cuold probablly just about squeeze by on min wage.

Now add to that equation a child (e.g.  single-parent 1 child).  But I understand.  It depends on where you live and where I live (California) it's really bad.

(MyndFyre edit: combined two posts.  Please do not double-post.)

[Forged]

The other solution would be to add maximum wages

What would be the point of studying to be a doctor for 8+ years if there is a price ceiling, and this is communism's flaw.

Now add to that equation a child

Maybe the child needs to be taken away if the parent is that irresponsible.

[quasi-modo]

The thing about a minimmum wage is, it drives the other wages up. The scientists/doctors/engineers are not going to be making the same money as the person bagging the groceries. When the baggers pay goes up it would drive some one elses pay up a bit eventually and then that would drive someone elses pay up. Now I am not saying that raising min wage by a doller is going to raise the rate of a doctor by a doller, but when minimum wage it is not just those making minimum wage whos pay goes up a little.


Also, about your last statment forged: I mentioned in another forum that I would not be completely against tubes getting tied for the people that have several kids they can't afford. I also said that we need a red latter A tatooed on everyone with aids, sort of like in the scarlet letter (but the a would be just below the waste line), but it would let people know that the person has aids. These ideas are controverisial and would never happen, but I think they might solve some problems (maybe create others though).

[j0k3r]

I also said that we need a red latter A tatooed on everyone with aids, sort of like in the scarlet letter (but the a would be just below the waste line), but it would let people know that the person has aids. These ideas are controverisial and would never happen, but I think they might solve some problems (maybe create others though).

Ah, interesting, I'm for it, but there are flaws with it. For starters, controversial doesn't scratch the surface of it, you would be setting apart a group of people for something that might not be their fault (a child born of aids infected parents). Tatoos can also be removed, if I was infected and felt insulted enough, I would have it removed. Lastly, if you contract aids though sex, it is your own fault. You should know your partner, if you enjoy just sleeping around you're running the risk of contracting STDs. Maybe knowing your partner isn't enough, you could have them tested. Point is, tatooing a letter to aids infected persons is not the solution.

[dxoigmn]

The thing about a minimmum wage is, it drives the other wages up. The scientists/doctors/engineers are not going to be making the same money as the person bagging the groceries. When the baggers pay goes up it would drive some one elses pay up a bit eventually and then that would drive someone elses pay up. Now I am not saying that raising min wage by a doller is going to raise the rate of a doctor by a doller, but when minimum wage it is not just those making minimum wage whos pay goes up a little.

Do you have any evidence to support this?  The thing about minimum wage is it drives up the cost of jobs that are typically low-paying and thereby reduces the amount of those jobs.  Why they can't distribute wages accordingly (i.e. the $10 million CEO giving up some money to pay for an extra work) is beyond me but seems to be largely because of greed.

[Forged]

Greed makes the world go round silly.  It is the cause of almost every human action.

[muert0]

Also, about your last statment forged: I mentioned in another forum that I would not be completely against tubes getting tied for the people that have several kids they can't afford. I also said that we need a red latter A tatooed on everyone with aids, sort of like in the scarlet letter (but the a would be just below the waste line), but it would let people know that the person has aids. These ideas are controverisial and would never happen, but I think they might solve some problems (maybe create others though).

Why not just put arm bands with the letter on the people with aids. Then we could just start halling them to camps and slaughter them. I mean finding out that they just got a disease that is going to kill them isn't enough is it?
And we could start having post birth abortions for people who can't afford their kids because they don't get paid enough to live.

[Adron]

The thing about a minimmum wage is, it drives the other wages up. The scientists/doctors/engineers are not going to be making the same money as the person bagging the groceries. When the baggers pay goes up it would drive some one elses pay up a bit eventually and then that would drive someone elses pay up. Now I am not saying that raising min wage by a doller is going to raise the rate of a doctor by a doller, but when minimum wage it is not just those making minimum wage whos pay goes up a little.

Minimum wages, as has been agreed on this forum, are already too low though. The problem isn't that the minimum wages are too high, it's all the other wages. You need to reduce the spread from minimum to maximum, which could only be accomplished by a ceiling. Or, if you like to simplify it, by applying 110% taxes to anything above a certain level. That way you don't have to call it a ceiling, it'll just become one anyway.

[quasi-modo]

The thing about a minimmum wage is, it drives the other wages up. The scientists/doctors/engineers are not going to be making the same money as the person bagging the groceries. When the baggers pay goes up it would drive some one elses pay up a bit eventually and then that would drive someone elses pay up. Now I am not saying that raising min wage by a doller is going to raise the rate of a doctor by a doller, but when minimum wage it is not just those making minimum wage whos pay goes up a little.

Do you have any evidence to support this?  The thing about minimum wage is it drives up the cost of jobs that are typically low-paying and thereby reduces the amount of those jobs.  Why they can't distribute wages accordingly (i.e. the $10 million CEO giving up some money to pay for an extra work) is beyond me but seems to be largely because of greed.

Evidence? This is common sense.

[dxoigmn]

The thing about a minimmum wage is, it drives the other wages up. The scientists/doctors/engineers are not going to be making the same money as the person bagging the groceries. When the baggers pay goes up it would drive some one elses pay up a bit eventually and then that would drive someone elses pay up. Now I am not saying that raising min wage by a doller is going to raise the rate of a doctor by a doller, but when minimum wage it is not just those making minimum wage whos pay goes up a little.

Do you have any evidence to support this?  The thing about minimum wage is it drives up the cost of jobs that are typically low-paying and thereby reduces the amount of those jobs.  Why they can't distribute wages accordingly (i.e. the $10 million CEO giving up some money to pay for an extra work) is beyond me but seems to be largely because of greed.

Evidence? This is common sense.

Well, last time I checked, my wage didn't go up because minimum wage went up.  Maybe if I was making minimum wage then it would have gone up but it didn't.  If anything, minimum wage will drive someone else wage down or some people will be layed off who are making lower wages (extreme case).

[quasi-modo]

The thing about a minimmum wage is, it drives the other wages up. The scientists/doctors/engineers are not going to be making the same money as the person bagging the groceries. When the baggers pay goes up it would drive some one elses pay up a bit eventually and then that would drive someone elses pay up. Now I am not saying that raising min wage by a doller is going to raise the rate of a doctor by a doller, but when minimum wage it is not just those making minimum wage whos pay goes up a little.

Do you have any evidence to support this?  The thing about minimum wage is it drives up the cost of jobs that are typically low-paying and thereby reduces the amount of those jobs.  Why they can't distribute wages accordingly (i.e. the $10 million CEO giving up some money to pay for an extra work) is beyond me but seems to be largely because of greed.

Evidence? This is common sense.

Well, last time I checked, my wage didn't go up because minimum wage went up.  Maybe if I was making minimum wage then it would have gone up but it didn't.  If anything, minimum wage will drive someone else wage down or some people will be layed off who are making lower wages (extreme case).

Your wage will not go up immediatly, this is a gradual over time thing. There has to be an adjustment period because nothing happens instantly. My wage will go up because our minimum wage went up over here. I will not see any more money because I will move before it happens in an estimated 6 months, but it is going to happen my manager says.

[Adron]

Well, if you desire a certain minimum wages that are required for a person to live on, you need to put those in terms that are related to costs and inflation. This means that other wages must not be allowed to go up as much as the minimum wages or inflation will kill your effect. Wage ceiling!

[quasi-modo]

Well, if you desire a certain minimum wages that are required for a person to live on, you need to put those in terms that are related to costs and inflation. This means that other wages must not be allowed to go up as much as the minimum wages or inflation will kill your effect. Wage ceiling!

ewww. Can't we just leave it alone? Do not try to fix what is no broken. I think they never should have created a minimum wage, and I am in support of none, but at this point trying to remove it wuld be political suicide and if you did you would have this devestating adjustment period.

[Forged]

From what I was taught in economics minimum wage is set so people don't compete for a job by offering to take less.  This could be bad, and fuck everyone over.

[quasi-modo]

Not neccessarily. Think of a worker as a company selling a service. Without price floors or ceilings the market is going to move towards equilibrium.