Valhalla Legends Archive

Quote from: tA-Kane on September 23, 2004, 04:08 PM
I didn't know Yoni had to join the Israeli Army? Actually, I might have, but just forgot...

But uhh... good luck, Yoni.

Quote from: $t0rm on September 23, 2004, 03:56 PMThis thread is full of flames and personal attacks, yet my post was the *only one* deleted.

I don't consider my post three hours or so ago as a flame. Instead, I like to think of it as a notice of stupidity and realization of worthless in regards to Deception's thoughts.

I personally beleive this thread should be locked.

I find that funny, coming from a Mac user.

As I said before, I think the authors SHOULD NOT help people with their creation if they do not want people using it. I am not nor have I ever asked for help with NLS.dll, but I do think the authors should quit bitching about their creation being "stolen". That's all.

The authors aren't the one's bitching, its the peple that come her loooking for help on it, and the other members of this forum sticking up for the makers by saying to stop bringing it here.  Granite this is a botDev forum, and you come here looking for help, but you don't bring something that was never meant to to get out for help on.

Quote from: UserLoser. on September 23, 2004, 01:56 PM
I have a great amount of information for WoW's logon protocol (WoWBot is still being worked on, slowly), some of which was given by a friend.  Nobody gets anything from it, don't expect to see anything either around here or anywhere else either.

You do realize you'll have to pay per month for the account the bot logs on, correct?

EDIT -- Deception, you asked Maddox for help with using the DLL, if I'm not mistaken. If you really want, I can dig the thread up.

EDIT2 -- I find your comment funny about dissing Kane, because you are even more worthless then his computer. Aren't you the one that scammed newbies out of their Warcraft III CD-Keys with some stupid wincraft.tk bot?

I asked Maddox for help with the change password function that Binary wrote in an open source module. The reason being, Binary wrote it wrong and Maddox said he could help.

Quote from: Deception on September 23, 2004, 05:25 PM
I asked Maddox for help with the change password function that Binary wrote in an open source module. The reason being, Binary wrote it wrong and Maddox said he could help.

Quote from: Deception on September 23, 2004, 12:29 AMbecause anyone who can't figure out how to use it shouldn't be programming anyway.

You couldn't figure it out from the API Declare? You had to use an open-source module because you couldn't figure out how to use it?

Quote from: Deception on September 23, 2004, 04:20 PM
As I said before, I think the authors SHOULD NOT help people with their creation if they do not want people using it. I am not nor have I ever asked for help with NLS.dll, but I do think the authors should quit bitching about their creation being "stolen". That's all.

They're entitled to bitch about it. It was stolen. They own the copyright in it, and anyone copying is committing a copyright violation. Perhaps a dmca violation too? I hear that latter one hits real hard.

Not to switch sides on this topic, but how can you copyright the reversing of something that brakes the EULA of a blizzard product?

Perhaps we should try out that DMCA Violation thing on Deception ..... after all ... he looks fearless!

Quote from: BaDDBLooD on September 23, 2004, 06:05 PM
Not to switch sides on this topic, but how can you copyright the reversing of something that brakes the EULA of a blizzard product?

EULAs still have not been tested, and thus cannot be assumed to be legally enforceable. What's more, that doesn't alter the owner of the copyright of the code in question, regardless of the status of the EULA. Virtually everything you write is yours, unless you expressly decline ownership or are using code you didn't write (and even then, unrelated code used with it is still yours).

It's still code relating to a blizzard product that's *Not* authorized to be reversed, dissasembled, and what not.

Quote from: Deception on September 23, 2004, 01:32 AM
I'm sure Skywing and Yoni are glad they have loyal followers such as Warrior and Newby, who continue to give them an abundance of passwords and CD-Keys.

Have you not even thought of how much work was put into BNLS?  If someone was going to make a server that does what the developers said it does (and more, as you insist), then why put so much work into it?  Little do you know, my system was being held hostile by Skywing over the last day or so, so he could figure out auto-update stuff with the newer MPQ formats.  Do you know anyone else who would goto such extremes to figure something out which isn't public (because we all know you like public sources), using another persons system over VNC, constant downloading/uploading large files, use of debuggers; just to steal CDkeys, account names && passwords?  I think a majority of the people here will agree that you need to not jump to conclusions and step over to the logical side of the story

Quote from: BaDDBLooD on September 23, 2004, 06:28 PM
It's still code relating to a blizzard product that's *Not* authorized to be reversed, dissasembled, and what not.

That's not relevant, unless they actually copied code out of the project. In which case Blizzard would also have copyright to the code, as derived work.

You have to separate the ideas (which are protected as trade secrets or as patents) from the expression of the ideas (which is protected by copyright).

Any time you put some ideas into expression, you have copyright to it, automatically and immediately, assuming that what you're doing requires some creativity. It doesn't matter where you got the ideas - if you stole them from a book or a program, it's the way you code it that is copyrighted.

It says, that you cannot dissasemble warcraft III and all that other warcraft IIi reversing stuff!

Good post, User.  

Quote from: BaDDBLooD on September 23, 2004, 06:28 PM
It's still code relating to a blizzard product that's *Not* authorized to be reversed, dissasembled, and what not.

Here's the catch.

If they had based their code on code actually written in text form by Blizzard, they would be in violation of Blizzard's copyright.

If they had used binary data (i.e. instructions) straight from the disassembly, and either included the disassembly code (i.e. assembler) inline or otherwise within their code; OR embedded the instructions in binary form as a data block, they would be in violation of Blizzard's copyright.

However, they disassembled it, examined the algorithm, and used their knowledge to create a completely independent work that does the same thing as the original product.  This is not a violation of copyright.

With regard to the EULA: I can imagine that Blizzard hypothetically has the right to terminate the license agreements accompanying the games that the authors used to disassemble and reverse-engineer the protocol, because the EULA expressly forbids it.  However, Blizzard does not have provisions in their EULA to collect damages, nor has there been legal precedent to do so.

Frankly, I used money donated from my clan to buy another WC3 CD key so that I could run a 24-hour bot and still get on Frozen Throne to game.  Blizzard should be thanking me for supporting them.  (And they did, I guess, by giving me two WoW accounts )

Anyway, I don't think that it matters much to Blizzard to enforce the EULA with regard to disassembly, particularly since SRP is an open method anyway.

Quote from: tA-Kane on September 23, 2004, 01:18 PM

Quote from: Deception on September 23, 2004, 01:32 AMIf the authors of NLS.dll didn't want people using it, they shouldn't have written it.

Maybe the government shouldn't write their software? I'm sure they don't want any other governments to use it...

A better analogy might be:

I just built a car from the ground up. It took countless hours of hard work and effort using skills only I possess. If I didn't want other people borrowing it from me, I shouldn't have built it. It doesn't work like that. The car [NLS.DLL] is MY property [sneakcharm/Telos/Maddox/etc]. I choose who gets to use it, or even ride in it.

The key here is the time spent on this work was stolen from an unwitting sneakcharm while he was on vacation.

It really disappoints me that sneakcharm had to be the victim of this theft. I've worked with him before -- he's a great guy! -- why did he have VNC on? In large part, so he could help other people
A. Learn to code, and code well [ he's fantastic ]
B. With their projects, and
C. Get help/input on team programming projects he was working on, including this DLL.

Instead, some script kiddie who quite obviously isn't capable of reverse-engineering Warcraft III's login and hashing sequences [re: nearly everyone using NLS.DLL in their applications] who was probably the recipient of his help at one point or another turned around and stabbed him in the back. Absolutely shameful.

To Deception, anyone who supports him: Your bringing this up on this forum is a disgrace. Give me back my car.