Valhalla Legends Archive

Quote from: Yoni on May 10, 2004, 09:59 AM
Infinitesimal deviation from 100% is not even possible.

So you're saying that since it's not 100% it's nothing?

No, I'm saying you can't deviate from 100% infinitesimally.
You can have 100% minus one bits, and you can have 100% bits, but you can't have anything between the two.
For 99.999% repeating to be possible, you need to have 100% minus one infinitesimal size (commonly noted in calculus as "epsilon") bits, which is as I said not possible.

Quote from: Yoni on May 10, 2004, 11:33 AM
No, I'm saying you can't deviate from 100% infinitesimally.
You can have 100% minus one bits, and you can have 100% bits, but you can't have anything between the two.
For 99.999% repeating to be possible, you need to have 100% minus one infinitesimal size (commonly noted in calculus as "epsilon") bits, which is as I said not possible.

Hmm, nothing special about 100%.  Seems to me you cannot infinitesimally deviate from any X.

Quote from: iago on May 09, 2004, 06:02 PM
well, if by 0.9999 ~= 1, you mean is approximately equal to, then yes

I didn't say that, iago -- note where the tilde operator was.  It was at the end of the 0.9999, with whitespace between it and the =.

Quote from: Grok on May 10, 2004, 12:33 PM

Quote from: Yoni on May 10, 2004, 11:33 AM
No, I'm saying you can't deviate from 100% infinitesimally.
You can have 100% minus one bits, and you can have 100% bits, but you can't have anything between the two.
For 99.999% repeating to be possible, you need to have 100% minus one infinitesimal size (commonly noted in calculus as "epsilon") bits, which is as I said not possible.

Hmm, nothing special about 100%.  Seems to me you cannot infinitesimally deviate from any X.

No, nothing special about 100%, so you can't have 49.9999999.... % of a file either. And that's all because a file has a smallest indivisible unit, an atom...

The main reason I posted this Joker was to see if The Great mathmagician yoni would go on the =1 side or not. I truely do not understand it other then it looks like it doesn't work out..


And As my title states, I am a newbie.

It's simply a limit problem.  The limit as the number of nines approaches infinity is 1.

An explanation of both sides of the argument from an actual maths person would be very interesting. I really like (1/3)*3 != 1 as an example of this (it's just neat), so some more background would be nice. I might read up on it when I get home.

Quote from: Arta[vL] on May 11, 2004, 05:54 AM
I really like (1/3)*3 != 1 as an example of this (it's just neat)...

Yes it does, (1/3)*3 = 3/3 = 1, 0.333_ * 3 != 1.
This is a problem when doing math, and my teacher has always taught us to leave it in fraction form because you lose valuable data when you convert to decimal and you're answer is sometimes off.
1/3 = 1/3, not .333_ because you lose information if you try to write down the decimal form.
(1/3)*(3/1) = 3/3 = 1 (try it, divide 3 by 3).

I wasn't thinking in fractions - add .0 to all my integers

Quote from: j0k3r on May 11, 2004, 06:18 AM

Quote from: Arta[vL] on May 11, 2004, 05:54 AM
I really like (1/3)*3 != 1 as an example of this (it's just neat)...

Yes it does, (1/3)*3 = 3/3 = 1, 0.333_ * 3 != 1.
This is a problem when doing math, and my teacher has always taught us to leave it in fraction form because you lose valuable data when you convert to decimal and you're answer is sometimes off.
1/3 = 1/3, not .333_ because you lose information if you try to write down the decimal form.
(1/3)*(3/1) = 3/3 = 1 (try it, divide 3 by 3).

Everything you said is wrong.

If you wish to know more, please study calculus. It'll be fun, I promise!

Quote from: iago on May 10, 2004, 10:19 PM
It's simply a limit problem.  The limit as the number of nines approaches infinity is 1.

Actually the solution posted by Blizzard was pretty neat.  The limit was only used to set up the summation to show that 9s went forever.  They then used that concept:

x = 0.999999999999~
so 10x = 9.99999999999~
10x - x = 9x = 9.999999999999~ - 0.9999999999999
9x = 9
x = 1

The limit only came into play when defining x as 0.999999999999~.

Quote from: Myndfyre on May 12, 2004, 01:18 PM

Quote from: iago on May 10, 2004, 10:19 PM
It's simply a limit problem.  The limit as the number of nines approaches infinity is 1.

Actually the solution posted by Blizzard was pretty neat.  The limit was only used to set up the summation to show that 9s went forever.  They then used that concept:

x = 0.999999999999~
so 10x = 9.99999999999~
10x - x = 9x = 9.999999999999~ - 0.9999999999999
9x = 9
x = 1

The limit only came into play when defining x as 0.999999999999~.

Yoink. [/endtroll]

Quote from: Adron on May 10, 2004, 02:30 PM




No, nothing special about 100%, so you can't have 49.9999999.... % of a file either. And that's all because a file has a smallest indivisible unit, an atom...

But can't an atom also be divided?

Quote from: Raven on May 12, 2004, 08:12 PM
But can't an atom also be divided?

Actually, a real atom is indivisible. They picked that as a label for combinations of neutrons and protons and electrons before they realized that those were divisible. See definition #3 at www.webster.com.

I don't understand definition #4 at all btw...