What spirit is really controlling George W Bush?

[Arta]

without getting bogged down in semantics that is wasn't called world war 2 until after Pearl Harbour, that's not really the point since there was still a war happening

It fucking well is to everyone else! 1939-1945 kthx.

[Grok]

Iraq has no chemical weapons.

...the very war in which Iraq used chemical weapons

This war is about oil

Don't you find it strange to say Iraq has no chemical weapons, but that they used them against Iran?

Oil?  That's bunk.  Oil is a commodity traded on the open market.  Only a complete idiot believes that hyperbole about war for oil.

No threat?  How about Iraq invading Kuwait?  This war is enforcement of the punishments placed on Iraq by the terms the United Nations put on his surrender last time around.  He has failed to completely meet those, so we're doing it for him.

Note he had 12 years to "destroy those missiles" but waited until a few weeks ago to show a couple and destroy them.  You're probably thinking "oh yah!  he's complying!"

Thinking like yours is why everyone sat on their hands and let Hitler run over a whole country and then you go "oh well, he won't do it again.  give peace a chance."

[MrRaza]

I totally agree. Grok and Invert are oil hungry

[Banana fanna fo fanna]

Honest to God, if i have to put up with another american who expects europeans to be beholden to the US for all eternity just because of WW2, i'm gonna barf. iago is quite right.

I dunno, I'm not a fan of digging up the past...we aren't our ancestors.

Iraq has no nukes. Iraq has no chemical weapons. Iraq has no biological weapons.

That's pretty funny, since they found two chemical weapons plants. And it's also funny, since EVERY SINGLE Iraqi nuclear scientist who has defected has said that their nuclear program is at least double the size it was before the Gulf War

UNSCOM did a spectacular job disarming Iraq after the last war. They were starting to do the same this time, but just when they actually started destroying Iraq's missiles (which, by the way, were NOT in violation of sanctions - they only had the *potential* to be modified so that they would exceed the allowed range) the US declares war.

I guess they disarmed Iraq so well, that we aren't going to need to fight a war with them. Oh wait....we had to fight TWO.

[quote[
Iraq would never give WMD to fundamentalist Islamic terrorists. If they did, the terrorists would most likely use them on Iraq before they used them on us. Hussien *hates* fundamentalist islam, as has been demonstrated by his 7 year war with iran over the issue - the very war in which Iraq used chemical weapons with the full knowledge and backing of the US. He has gone to exceptional lengths to eradicate fundamentalism in iraq, also.

If it's terrorists vs the US, I think he'd side with the terrorists. My rant about why 9/11 and Iraq and Israel are all related belongs in a different thread.

Don't get me wrong - he's a monster, a thoroughly evil man, and I wish he wasn't in power, but he is.

Yeah. Totally agree.

This war is not about terrorism, it's not about WMD, and it's DEFINATELY not about humanitarianism, or 'liberating' iraq. It's about oil.

You just say that because everyone says that. You shouldn't blindly listen to Michael Moore, he's the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen.

Doesn't that strike anyone as a bit strange? That just as evidence refuting Bush & Blair starts to become available, the war begins?

This war is about oil, and Bush/Blair have been feeding us a pack of lies from day one. It sickens me that so many people have been taken in by it.

Now now child, save your anti-government ranting for something worth fighting for, like destroying the DMCA.

Frankly, I think George W. Bush is a great man. Yeah, he has shitty charisma. So what? He has the balls to fight for what he knows is right and doesn't give a shit about his popularity. I'm pretty sure he has access to the CIA intelligence files and his critics don't.

Now, about France. France is only contradicting us and Britain because they want to control the EU. Why do you think all the Eastern Europe countries side with us? Because they don't like what France is doing.

In closing, I'd just like to say that none of us (including me) have a right to judge what the president is doing. We aren't in his position. Frankly, we don't know JACK SHIT about the intelligence information or how the war is going. We can go out there and say "NO WAR," but for all you know, he has everything that has been said and more. You don't know.

Everyone should shut the fuck up until this thing has blown over, and then perhaps we can discuss the conflict.

[Arta]

blah blah blah

his WMD were destroyed by the UNSCOM after the first gulf war. He may be a threat to his neighbours, he's not a threat to us, and since when did the US give a shit about who was a threat to who when the people concerned are half way around the world? Do you see the US intervening in India/Pakistan? China/Taiwan? Half the countries in Africa? No.

What right does the US have to enforce 'punishment' applied by the UN? The UN set the sanctions, it's up the the UN to enforce them, and the UN has spoken on this issue. There was no 2nd resolution and no hope of one, and there's a reason for that. The majority of the world is against this war.

I find the Hitler reference offensive. To compare a man that orchestrated the mass murder of 6 million people to saddam hussein is as absurd as it is meaningless.

I'm not blindly listening to Micheal Moore. I'm examining the facts as I see them as best as I can, and drawing my own conclusions. I don't trust people just because they're in power. In fact, i probably actively distrust them, because they're in power. Until someone shows me some more information, i'll continue to base my opinions on the information I have, and that information tells me that this war is about oil, not terrorism or liberation.

Iraq has no nuclear program - at least not one that's anywhere close to constructing a working warhead. Manufacturing a nuclear weapon is not a simple process, it's complicated, big, very visible, very expensive, and requires a lot of infrastructure. Trade sanctions on Iraq make it nigh on impossible to obtain the equipment they'd need in order to do it, and that's besides the fact that there's no way such a program could remain hidden. The processes involved are readily detectable - for one thing, a lot of gamma radiation is produced. The facilities required would be huge. Both of these are easily detectable via satellite. If there was evidence of an active nuclear weapons program the US would tell the world about it, and don't give me crap about secret intelligence - they'd have nothing to loose from telling everyone 'Iraq has a plutonium refining facility here, and a heavy water reactor here, and here are the photos'. Also, you shouldn't quote blind statistics. Saying the size of their programme has doubled is silly. It could have been 100 scientists before, so now it's 200. So what? Without the infrastructure that Iraq is unable to obtain, they could have 2000, it'd make no difference.

Also, saying that Bush doesn't care about popularity is pretty silly. If there's one thing that's guaranteed to send a president's approval through the roof, it's a war... at least, until too many body-bags come rolling in.

I doubt i'll post more on this topic unless someone really hits one of my sore spots, i'm totally comfortable & secure in my position on this subject, and therefore don't feel the need to convince anyone else that I'm right.

[Adron]

(Just a small notice from the moderator... Remember that you're only allowed to argue as long as it's fun. This is the fun forum. If you want to have a serious argument, split off your posts to the General Forum or something.)

[Grok]

It was fun for me!

[Banana fanna fo fanna]

Damned fun.