If Bush Lied...

[hismajesty]

Then these people did too.

[Hazard]

Bravo zulu Majesty. I wonder what the "Bush Lied" people on this forum will use to respond.

[Arta]

My immediate response would be:

If he lied, he's not fit to lead.
If he was just wrong then he (or some subordinates who should be fired) are incompetent, and thus not fit to lead.

The image stopped loading for me part way through the Hilary Clinton quote, so all I can really say specifically would be about Bill Clinton's: He says 'respond'. He does not define what response would be appropriate. In fact, given his actions during his presidency, its safe to say that his 'response' was not, and would not be, the same as Bush's.

I would also say: When are those quotes from? If, as I suspect, they were from before the first gulf war, then they are correct, accurate, valid, and reasonable. The first Gulf war was, so far as I can see, a perfectly justified one. The same comments do not apply to the second Guld war, which so far has shown fairly conclusively that Hussien was absolutely no thread to the West at all.

[Hazard]

If he lied, he's not fit to lead.

So what you're saying is that all of those people are unfit to lead?

[Arta]

You should read my whole post before you respond to it.

[quasi-modo]

The bottom line is that bush did not lie.

[MyndFyre]

If he lied, he's not fit to lead.

I agree.

If he was just wrong then he (or some subordinates who should be fired) are incompetent, and thus not fit to lead.

The subordinates should be fired, but I'm not sure that he should be.  He's at least one level removed from everyone who produced intelligence; he didn't appoint the analysts.

I would also say: When are those quotes from? If, as I suspect, they were from before the first gulf war, then they are correct, accurate, valid, and reasonable. The first Gulf war was, so far as I can see, a perfectly justified one. The same comments do not apply to the second Guld war, which so far has shown fairly conclusively that Hussien was absolutely no thread to the West at all.

There's a John Kerry quote at the bottom:

Why is Saddam(sic) Hussein attempting to develop nuclear weapons when most nations don't even try?  & According (sic) to intelligence, Iraq has chemical and biological weapons... Iraq is developing unmanned aerial vehicles capable of delivering chemical and biological warfare agents..."

Quoted from http://johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2002_1009.html

Definitely after the first Gulf War.

In any case, John Kerry is apparrently ALSO unfit to lead by your standards (the one I disagreed with above).  He looked at the same intelligence Bush did.

[Arta]

I don't think Bush should resign or be fired if his subordinates messed up, even though he is ultimately responsible for everything that happens in his administration - I wouldn't hold anyone soley accountable for such a massive failing of the system.

Anyway, that poster dates both those Clinton quotes to 1998 - that is after the first Gulf war, but plenty long enough before the current conflict to not really be relevant without a lot more context.

[quasi-modo]

I don't think Bush should resign or be fired if his subordinates messed up, even though he is ultimately responsible for everything that happens in his administration - I wouldn't hold anyone soley accountable for such a massive failing of the system.

Especially because this was a cia 'screw up' and british intelligence was confirming our own.

[hismajesty]

Since I totally rock I made a If Bush Lied flash movie it has a lot more quotes and such than that image.

Please note, I doubt any of these politicians have ties to Halliburton so the 'war for oil' argument won't stick here.

[quasi-modo]

It needs cool music 
I suggest SymphonyX - Sea of Lies

[hismajesty]

Hah yea, I wanted to add some, but couldn't think of any

Edit: Hrm, downloading legally aquiring it now. I'll add it tommorow after I get home from working the polls if I have time. I'll also extend the time between scene transitions. Thanks for song suggestion, I've never heard it so I hope it fits.

[Adron]

Then these people did too.

That seems incorrect. Many of those statements are compatible with circumstances that are incompatible with Bush's.

#1: "If there's no response he'll be emboldened", seems like it could be accurate under virtually all circumstances. It would be a lie if there was no response and Saddam wasn't embolded. It doesn't say anything about what kind of response is required.

#2: "Intelligence reports show .... however, .... ", seems to have had some doubts about something (what else is that "however" doing there?), but probably trusted flawed intelligence too much anyway. Most of it sounds OK - it sounds likely that Saddam would increase his ability for warfare and try to develop nuclear weapons if left unchecked, i.e. without the UN programs to check him.

#3: "Every day ... danger for the United States" - every day offers some danger to everyone. That's a safe statement to make. There's also a qualifier to the statement; it applies when Saddam is in power with chemical weapons, biological weapons and development of nuclear weapons. A good qualifier, since if he doesn't have those, the statement is still accurate. It becomes just a nop.

#4: " ... consequences ... if we fail to act", yes, failing to act would probably embolden Saddam. No statement of what "act" means, could imply increasing frequency of inspections.

#5: "confronting Iraq now would undermine", is arguing that going to war with Iraq won't make a future search for Al Qaeda impossible, that you can do both. Sounds reasonable. Why not? Maybe it'd undermine it a bit, but given enough money, you should be able to afford it.

#6: "according to intelligence, .... ", qualifies the statement correctly, meaning it's not a lie. He's not in the position of president, and responsible for the running of the country, so it's not his fault if intelligence if flawed.

#7: "Iraq or the world would be better off ...", sounds valid. Iraq and the world are better off without Saddam. Is it worth the costs? Hard to say. Was it right to get rid of him? Hard to say. Those are the real issues, and the quote doesn't speak about them.

Would the world be a better place without Bush? Certainly. Would it be right to assassinate him? Doubtful.

[Banana fanna fo fanna]

Would the world be a better place without Bush? Certainly. Would it be right to assassinate him? Doubtful.

It doesn't matter if the world is better...only if America is better. That _is_ the point of the _American president_, after all.

[Arta]

If the world is better, America is better by implication.