A tree falling in the woods...

[Adron]

If a mute man gets his balls kicked, does it hurt?

[j0k3r]

You guys are by far the most whacked out bunch I've ever seen... Once again...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sound
sound n.

1.Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing.

2.Transmitted vibrations of any frequency.

YES, the tre DOES make a sound whether you are there to hear it or not.

Colours (or the fragment of light as we see as colours) is there whether we see it or not, they are not there 'because we see them', we see them because they are there. The same concept goes for the tree, it does not make a sound because we are there, we hear it because it makes a sound.

The universe exists, not for us, but it just does. The fact that we see it does not mean it is there for us, it is there and we just happen to be observers (I'm sorry if I'm being repetitive).

If all of this 'junk' you guys are talking about is true, then there is no door, you can walk through it if your eyes were closed, there is no gravity, you can fly if you wanted, and there is no time (because you can't see it) and you can live forever. All of these theories as we know, are false.

[UrbalT]

You guys are by far the most whacked out bunch I've ever seen... Once again...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sound
sound n.

1.Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing.

2.Transmitted vibrations of any frequency.

YES, the tre DOES make a sound whether you are there to hear it or not.

j0k3r, get your science out of this philosophy discussion.  It has no place here.  For reference, see Descartes, René.

Besides, havn't you ever seen The Matrix? [/obligatory]

But we "know" that these things are false?  How, might I ask, do we know this?

[iago]

To use a teleological argument, why would the universe exist if it wasn't for us? If there was nobody in the universe to sense time, space, and all the fun stuff, would it really exist?  

There could have been an infinite number of universes created before ours, but if there was no life in them, they'd might as well not exist.

[j0k3r]

You guys are by far the most whacked out bunch I've ever seen... Once again...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sound
sound n.

1.Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing.

2.Transmitted vibrations of any frequency.

YES, the tre DOES make a sound whether you are there to hear it or not.

j0k3r, get your science out of this philosophy discussion.  It has no place here.  For reference, see Descartes, Rene.

Besides, havn't you ever seen The Matrix? [/obligatory]

But we "know" that these things are false?  How, might I ask, do we know this?

Ah, I'll give you credit for being one of the only people ever to spell my name correctly.

iago, you once again are under the impression the universe was created for you. Your (insert hero/idol's name here) does not get up at 5am and let the sun out for you, people's lives go on while you are there to witness them or not, and we do not live in a computer.

[iago]

Of course the world wasn't created for me, and of course the sun doesn't rise for me.  But if there was no sentient life, would it matter whether the universe existed or the sun came up every day?  IF there was no sentient life, would it matter what color something was, whether a meteorite hit the earth, or if the earth fell into the sun?  Of course not!  If there was no sentient life, then for all intents and purposes, it wouldn't matter whether or not the universe exists.  It doesn't exist for ME, it exists for ANY sentient life, or even for sentient life in general.

[j0k3r]

What is it about sentient life that all of a sudden makes the universe worthwhile?

[Yoni]

If a tree falls in the woods, and no one's around, does it make a sound?

I heard this as:

"If a tree falls in the woods, and no one's around, what color is it?"

[Thing]

Eh.  Why does everyone insist that we exist, that this is real, that the tree is red and the ball fell?  Think for yourselves and stop believing that crap you read in textbooks.

[UrbalT]

Eh.  Why does everyone insist that we exist, that this is real, that the tree is red and the ball fell?  Think for yourselves and stop believing that crap you read in textbooks.

As my previous comment may have indicated, René Descartes felt the same way.  He's the guy who started with "Cogito, ergo sum," and built his universe up from there.

[Soul Taker]

Eh.  Why does everyone insist that we exist, that this is real, that the tree is red and the ball fell?  Think for yourselves and stop believing that crap you read in textbooks.

But then I'd be listening to what I read on a forum!

[iago]

What is it about sentient life that all of a sudden makes the universe worthwhile?

Sentient life acts as an observer.  Life is different than normal matter.  Refering to my other post about teleporters/copying people, we have something special, whether it be a mind or a soul, that allows all sorts of special stuff.  For these arguments to work, you have to accept that there is something special about minds, which I also refered to in my other post.  It follows from that, in a complicated argument which I don't feel like getting into yet, that God must exist.  It's a really interesting argument, posted by Descartes.

And yes, Descartes was my main inspiration for posting this.  Cogito ergo sum - I think <--> I exist.  

To summarize the beginning of Descartes' argument:
The world may be a deception.  I have no guarentee whether I'm dreaming or awake.  I could be in the Matrix, being fed false sensory information.  God could be the Great Deciever, giving us all sorts of false information and lying to us.  Everything could be fake, except for the fact that I'm the one who is doubting the existance, which leads me to believe that my mind exists, even though everything else may be fake.  From this, he follows that his body must exist, then that god must exist (using the Ontological Proof), then from that that everybody else in the world must exist.  I don't want to go into it past that, but if this sounds interesting, read Descartes' "Confessions".  It's a very interesting read.

[Adron]

That part sounds rather stupid. What's to say that you're really there to doubt your existence? You may feel so, but if you're not really there, that could be an illusion too. Just like time. In an unknown world, you cannot trust that you're really thinking. Maybe it's all fake.

[j0k3r]

That part sounds rather stupid. What's to say that you're really there to doubt your existence? You may feel so, but if you're not really there, that could be an illusion too. Just like time. In an unknown world, you cannot trust that you're really thinking. Maybe it's all fake.

OMG TAKE THE RED PILL!

* j0k3r let's go of his opinion for a few momments

Even if everything was artificial, and created by a computer, do you not enjoy what you think food tastes like? Do you not enjoy being comfortable in the clothes of your choice? Do you enjoy not having to live in fear of being sliced in half by ARTIFICIAL intelligence? Although I have a lust for knowledge, had the opportunity presented itself I would rather stay here and learn, than to go live in poverty, fear, and whatever. All I want is my computer, nothing else really matters to me. I'm happy with life I guess.

Yes iago, you think, therefore you exist I agree with about that. As for sentient life adding meaning to the universe, I still say no. Nothing you/I/we will ever do will ever affect anything (hey, there's no point to life! yeah that's right...) in the grand scheme of things (galaxy, universe, etc).

[Shadowrage]

I can see this argument getting ever closer to its only possible outcome which is this.

How do you know sound is sound? Because it says so in a book? Because you think it is? What if you are wrong? You claim to have a brain that understands these concepts, What if you are wrong?

Sound is a manmade idea the word itself and the theory around it created by us, so from man's perception it is what it is. It doesn't mean that our understanding of it is correct, or for that matter wrong. We claim to be able to measure sound, What if we cannot? What about if the entire universe as we think we know it is completly diffrent.

How can you be sure thinking makes you exist? In order to do this you are claiming to understand the very principales of existance.

When viewing the world through a kaleidoscope there are many copies of whatever you see which are distorted and randomly arranged. Does this mean the world really looks like that? To somebody who had only ever seen through a kaleidoscope the answer would be yes. They would know no diffrent.

Maybe as humans we are a method of looking upon something, a preception altering view for some greater being or whatever you wish to imagine. How can any of you be sure that all your lives you have not been viewing the world through a human kaleidoscope?

*sorry for any spelling mistakes*