Religion

[quasi-modo]

This thread has gone retarded. The first post was valid, and answered, what is with the insults and side bickering?


Salvation based on anything other than faith is a complete contradiction with the rest of the bible and is incorrect.
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." - Romans 10:13
It doesn't get any more plain then that.

and this whole 'purgatory' thing? I've never seen a verse saying that you can wait around for a while and then get into heaven. To believe in it is to believe in a works based salvation. For which I have never seen a supporting verse.

[Yegg]

What I was wondering, if you didn't believe in God and as said before lived life without intending to do anything bad despite small hiccups time to time, aswell as being helpful to those amoung you etc.. When faced on judgement day (?) and he decides whether you go to Heaven on not. Will he say "No, because you didn't accept Jesus as your saviour to have your sins revoked."? or are other there other varibles here that I'm missing?

You can still get into Heaven, however you'd be sent to Purgatory beforehand.

[quasi-modo]

What I was wondering, if you didn't believe in God and as said before lived life without intending to do anything bad despite small hiccups time to time, aswell as being helpful to those amoung you etc.. When faced on judgement day (?) and he decides whether you go to Heaven on not. Will he say "No, because you didn't accept Jesus as your saviour to have your sins revoked."? or are other there other varibles here that I'm missing?

You can still get into Heaven, however you'd be sent to Purgatory beforehand.

Support that. Justify that with the verse I posted in my previous post.

[Joe[x86]]

Yeah, topaz, I was going to mention the purgatory. If you accept Jesus as savior, then he will let you into heaven. Even if you've been a great person, but didn't accept him as savior, he'll say something along the lines of "I never knew you." and send you to hell.

[Yegg]

What I was wondering, if you didn't believe in God and as said before lived life without intending to do anything bad despite small hiccups time to time, aswell as being helpful to those amoung you etc.. When faced on judgement day (?) and he decides whether you go to Heaven on not. Will he say "No, because you didn't accept Jesus as your saviour to have your sins revoked."? or are other there other varibles here that I'm missing?

You can still get into Heaven, however you'd be sent to Purgatory beforehand.

Support that. Justify that with the verse I posted in my previous post.

http://www.answers.com/purgatory

It is a Catholic teaching.

[quasi-modo]

What I was wondering, if you didn't believe in God and as said before lived life without intending to do anything bad despite small hiccups time to time, aswell as being helpful to those amoung you etc.. When faced on judgement day (?) and he decides whether you go to Heaven on not. Will he say "No, because you didn't accept Jesus as your saviour to have your sins revoked."? or are other there other varibles here that I'm missing?

You can still get into Heaven, however you'd be sent to Purgatory beforehand.

Support that. Justify that with the verse I posted in my previous post.

http://www.answers.com/purgatory

It is a Catholic teaching.

Way to not answer the question. I know the catholics believe in it, I'm not an idiot. I wanted you to justify your belief in it, not post a dictionary link to it. Please support your claims that I can get to heaven through any other means than accpeting Jesus Christ as my savior. Try giving me something biblical here.

[FrOzeN]

Wrong again. All of mankind has sinned, and only when you accept Jesus as your savior and ask for forgiveness will you be saved and go to Heaven.

So when a baby is born it has sinned already?

[topaz]

Wrong again. All of mankind has sinned, and only when you accept Jesus as your savior and ask for forgiveness will you be saved and go to Heaven.

So when a baby is born it has sinned already?

The Bible isn't specific as to how those special cases are handled, but God is full of mercy and justice. Quit pulling shit out of your ass as if you know how it works.

Looking for stupid loopholes in my arguments don't work. Obviously, it's going to sin as it matures.

[l2k-Shadow]

Well I'm an atheist myself and come from a country which is 59% atheist, and the younger generation being about 90% (clicky look under religion - 2001 census it has gone WAY up since then). But anyway it is not that I come from an atheist family, I have actually thought about religion and came to several conclusions. But before I get into that, this thread is called Religion, and only one religion believes in Jesus Christ as the people's savior, Christianity. Now, a lot of the people in the world are not Christians therefore forming this thread around Jesus and if you go to heaven or hell is entirely pointless.

So now many believers tell me that it is morally incorrect to not believe and that I will go to hell and that not believing gives me excuse to commit crime and violence because I don't fear God's punishments. That may be so, however, why are most wars based on religious disputes? hmm.. take middle east for example, Jews and Muslims are killing each other every single day. It is entirely fine to believe in God, but kill people because their religion is different from yours, that is just stupid. Also not to mention, you always have the ganster rappers with the huge ass crosses around their neck, who do/sell drugs and steal shit, but wait, they can just ask for forgiveness and keep on doing it... Now from personal experience, I live in a rich, religious neighborhood, with conservative Christians, and liberal Jews. And I see bullshit happening in school every single day because of Judaism vs Christianity and vice versa. I also hate the fact that people are so self-absorbed when it comes to religion. It's kind of like black kids hanging with black kids, christians hanging with christians, jews hanging with jews... and if you're atheist and you wanna go out with a jewish girl, yeah GL with that one. And I could go on and on..

I dislike organized religion, it is so incredibely overrated. If people could get along and unite under one religion peacefully, all would be well.. but yeah until then, I won't have my lifestyle guided by people who steal money from offerings to go buy outfits in which they could pick up little boys and go at their butthole Michael Jackson style.

[FrOzeN]

Wrong again. All of mankind has sinned, and only when you accept Jesus as your savior and ask for forgiveness will you be saved and go to Heaven.

So when a baby is born it has sinned already?

The Bible isn't specific as to how those special cases are handled, but God is full of mercy and justice. Quit pulling shit out of your ass as if you know how it works.

Looking for stupid loopholes in my arguments don't work. Obviously, it's going to sin as it matures.

But if the Baby dies before it has sinned, it would die without ever sinning; thus being perfect and being allowed to enter Heaven without requiring Jesus as his/her savior?

[topaz]

Fuck if I know man, but as I said, God is full of mercy and justice - expect fairness.

[FrOzeN]

Nevermind then.

[Yegg]

What I was wondering, if you didn't believe in God and as said before lived life without intending to do anything bad despite small hiccups time to time, aswell as being helpful to those amoung you etc.. When faced on judgement day (?) and he decides whether you go to Heaven on not. Will he say "No, because you didn't accept Jesus as your saviour to have your sins revoked."? or are other there other varibles here that I'm missing?

You can still get into Heaven, however you'd be sent to Purgatory beforehand.

Support that. Justify that with the verse I posted in my previous post.

http://www.answers.com/purgatory

It is a Catholic teaching.

Way to not answer the question. I know the catholics believe in it, I'm not an idiot. I wanted you to justify your belief in it, not post a dictionary link to it. Please support your claims that I can get to heaven through any other means than accpeting Jesus Christ as my savior. Try giving me something biblical here.

Ok, something Biblical. The Bible states that you must be "white as snow", referring to your soul, to get into Heaven. If you're white as snow, you would have absolutely no sin on your soul. This is false for anyone other than Jesus and his Mother. If you believe that since the Bible doesn't mention anything by the name of Purgatory (it mentions a place like it, without using the word, the word was made by the Roman Catholic Church) and that you either go to heaven or Hell, then with your philosophy everyone goes straight to Hell because no one is pure of sin.

Purgatory gives one the chance to accept Jesus as their Savior if they failed to do this with their life on Earth. Padre Pio was visited by the soul of a crooked priest, this priest asked him to pray for his soul. Padre Pio had massed held for his soul, asked others to pray for him, and of course he himself prayed for the priest's soul. Sometime later, he was again visited by the soul of the priest and the priest told him that because of all the prayer's said for him, he had been welcomed into the kingdom of Heaven.

Is this good enough?

[Yegg]

So now many believers tell me that it is morally incorrect to not believe and that I will go to hell and that not believing gives me excuse to commit crime and violence because I don't fear God's punishments. That may be so, however, why are most wars based on religious disputes? hmm.. take middle east for example, Jews and Muslims are killing each other every single day. It is entirely fine to believe in God, but kill people because their religion is different from yours, that is just stupid. Also not to mention, you always have the ganster rappers with the huge ass crosses around their neck, who do/sell drugs and steal shit, but wait, they can just ask for forgiveness and keep on doing it... Now from personal experience, I live in a rich, religious neighborhood, with conservative Christians, and liberal Jews. And I see bullshit happening in school every single day because of Judaism vs Christianity and vice versa. I also hate the fact that people are so self-absorbed when it comes to religion. It's kind of like black kids hanging with black kids, christians hanging with christians, jews hanging with jews... and if you're atheist and you wanna go out with a jewish girl, yeah GL with that one. And I could go on and on..

I don't know what kind of people are telling you that, whatever you do God holds you accountable for, whether you believe or not. It isn't fine to kill others because of the religion they follow, no one said it was right either. I'm not sure where you were going with the gangsta rappers, or if you were being sarcastic. But do you not know that God has the power to read your mind and understand it better than you can every dream of? He knows if your confession is truely how you feel, or if you're asking for forgiveness just because you think it will get you off the hook. These "self-absorbed" people with their religion aren't very religious if they act the way that you just described to me.

I dislike organized religion, it is so incredibely overrated. If people could get along and unite under one religion peacefully, all would be well.. but yeah until then, I won't have my lifestyle guided by people who steal money from offerings to go buy outfits in which they could pick up little boys and go at their butthole Michael Jackson style.

Why dislike organized religion? It's only overrated if you make it overrated. You can't get along under one religion of course, so we must live together with multiple religions, I don't see why that should be hard, I don't see any problems with that. I have friends who are atheist, Catholic, Lutheran, etc. We can talk about religious topics or other, non-religious topics and not have a problem with having different views or beliefs on something.

And by the way, don't bother brining Michael Jackson into the picture. Do you know what kind of a life he lived? Do you know how abusive his father was, especially to Michael? Do you know what he witnessed as a young child? Do you know for a fact that he did anything with little boys? Do you know that he never got to be a kid while he was young? Ever think that his Netherland may be his way of getting to be like a kid now? And that to him sleeping with little boys means nothing wrong because it would be like if he was a little boy as well?

[quasi-modo]

Wrong again. All of mankind has sinned, and only when you accept Jesus as your savior and ask for forgiveness will you be saved and go to Heaven.

So when a baby is born it has sinned already?

Yes, infact it has. Greed. But there is an age of accountability, someone who has never had the opportunity to know Christ is not condemned for it.