Bush is hindering the advancement of our species.

[Deception]

Back on track: Bush is against stem cell research because it involves cloning human embrios to extract the stem cells, which he thinks he killing a baby or something.

Deception, your second thread that I have read on this forum is created in very similar tone to the first one: a troll. This time I'm going to play along, though, because I like political discussions.

George W. Bush is clearly not a stupid man. He has degrees from Harvard and Yale, and he has no problem running the country, even in wartime. The reason you perceive him as stupid is because of his speaking style:

1. He speaks very directly. To me this is not a trait of stupidity, but of logic. Where John Kerry would spout a paragraph of nuanced bullshit, Bush can sum his viewpoint up in a concise sentence or two. The AP test graders would love it.

2. He has made mistakes in his speech in the past. This is hardly a measure of stupidity. Plenty of people who have no public speaking skills whatsoever are incredibly intelligent; for example your stereotypical engineer. To top it all off, his verbal mistakes have been much fewer and further between since 9/11.

Next, I'm hardly a redneck. I was born, raised and currently reside in one of the nation's most liberal cities, Madison, Wisconsin. In fact, the UW here controls some of the last remaining embryonic stem cell lines. Your stereotyping Republicans as rednecks is just as stupid as Hismajesty's stereotyping liberals as smelly tree-hugging hippies. I know some very intelligent liberals and I know some very stupid explosive ones. The stupid ones are more fun to debate, and their attitudes towards Bush often mirror yours. If you can't make your case without making fun of the person you're debating against, then you have no case.

Now, let me try to assuage your tearful, bleeding heart.

I cannot understand why anyone in their right mind would allow a primitive way of understanding the universe to hinder the advancement of the entire species.

I don't understand how embryonic stem-cell research is the key to the advancement of the species. But, more importantly, what exactly IS the "advancement of the species" ? From what I understand (and I am no expert in the subject) human embryonic stem cells are not the only type of stem cells that can be used to perform genetic research. They are, however, the only type that the Bush administration objects to, and they object on their belief that a fetus is a child. To believe that this type of research is the single key to the "advancement of the species" is ludicrous.

The debate raging around that type of research comes down to the basic argument as to whether life begins at birth or at conception. Typical conservatives believe it begins at conception, while typical liberals believe it begins at birth. If it begins at conception, a human embryo is a child and therefore you are taking a life. If it begins at birth, the embryo is no more than a piece of medical waste.

So, Pot, meet Kettle: if you truly want intelligent posts and good responses from the very intelligent constituents of this forum, I would suggest not beginning your threads by calling a good chunk of them stupid rednecks, and spinning the question like a front page story in the New York Times. Intelligent thread openers will receive intelligent responses, especially on this forum.

Without reading most of your post, I must say you got the "redneck republicans" phrase out of context. If you notice, I had it just as redneck (which could mean anyone, republican or otherwise) and then some stupid kid asked me to call rednecks republicans. So I did.

[Deception]

Back on track: Bush is against stem cell research because it involves cloning human embrios to extract the stem cells, which he thinks he killing a baby or something.

Bush doesn't believe anything by his religion. He's too stupid to make choices like that on his own. His advisers run the country. He is only a figurehead.

* hismajesty[yL] would like to note that Bush was the first president to ever use government funds to support stem cell research

So?

Bush obviously beleives that there is at least some future in stem cell research and is thus allowing at least some government funding to go to it - even though it's against his religion and the viewpoints of his party.

[hismajesty]

Newby never said to combine the words, he said to replace the word "redneck" with the world "Republican."

You didn't read his post? What a great way to initiate an intelligent debate. Face it, all you can do it spit off common arguments that have been pounded into your brain by your party, you then continue to pick a fight with the first person with an opposite viewpoint and then use your little knowledge and witty catch phrases to attempt to prove a point. You'll then get angry when you realize you lose and stoop to petty nit picking. You own.

Edit:

Do you even know what religion Bush is (without looking up.)

[Deception]

Newby never said to combine the words, he said to replace the word "redneck" with the world "Republican."

You didn't read his post? What a great way to initiate an intelligent debate. Face it, all you can do it spit off common arguments that have been pounded into your brain by your party, you then continue to pick a fight with the first person with an opposite viewpoint and then use your little knowledge and witty catch phrases to attempt to prove a point. You'll then get angry when you realize you lose and stoop to petty nit picking. You own.

Edit:

Do you even know what religion Bush is (without looking up.)

No, Newby asked me to call you rednecks republicans. So I identified you as such:

I know this is going to cause trouble but it would be nice if you called us "rednecks" "republicans" or not even mention us at all.

For the record, I am not a democrat or a republican. I am also not liberal, although I share a few common beliefs with the liberals.

I am also not a Christian like Mr. Bush. If you're asking me what denomination he is, it doesn't matter. Any Christian still has a set view on how things in the universe happen, and I find it to be the most ignorant and pathetic outlook on life I could possibly think of.  I don't care if we kill a few thousand human embrios. They aren't babies. They don't have brains yet, or feelings, or anything you could associate with a baby.

Just because it has the potential to become a human does not mean it is one yet.

[MyndFyre]

I have tried to step into this "debate" by splitting off the crap once already.  Further digression from the subject and attacking of each other will get the topic locked.

Thank you for your time.

[Deception]

I have tried to step into this "debate" by splitting off the crap once already.  Further digression from the subject and attacking of each other will get the topic locked.

Thank you for your time.

I still don't see what you are talking about. Could you please tell me why you locked the other thread of mine?

[Stealth]

Without reading most of your post

Clearly you have no interest in anything other than making inflammatory threads:

it would be nice if we got INTELLIGENT and serious posts

How can you have an intelligent discussion without listening to what the other side is saying?

Any Christian still has a set view on how things in the universe happen, and I find it to be the most ignorant and pathetic outlook on life I could possibly think of.

This is hardly an intelligent argument, my friend. There are countless flavors of Christianity. My girlfriend is part of the United Methodist Church, which is very progressive -- for example, their pastor is a woman. Baptist preachers can marry, Catholic priests cannot. The different branches of Christianity at times share very little in common, yet you generalize them and then have the gall to call them "ignorant and pathetic" -- for some reason it strikes me that the 1-odd billion Christians in the world are hardly ignorant and pathetic, much less so when you include the followers of Islam which also includes extreme traditional values (women in burqas, stoning people to death for adultery) that by your standards would be well beyond "ignorant and pathetic".

Your other thread was disposed of because it was not only a troll but it was one without any debatable value whatsoever -- it was just a direct personal attack on George W. Bush and thus a total waste of time.

In conclusion, if you want to have an intelligent conversation, you can probably start by reading the words your opponents are typing.

[CrAz3D]

I move we either ignore Deception or ask for his banishment.

He doesn't try to post logically, he doesn't even read other posts that he is replying to.

[hismajesty]

No, Newby asked me to call you rednecks republicans. So I identified you as such:

Re:

I know this is going to cause trouble but it would be nice if you called us "rednecks" "republicans" or not even mention us at all.

notice the two sets of quotes? He forgot a comma, but since you're so intelligent and in such favor of intelligent debate, surely you wouldn't be stumped by that.

[Adron]

Re:

I know this is going to cause trouble but it would be nice if you called us "rednecks" "republicans" or not even mention us at all.

notice the two sets of quotes? He forgot a comma, but since you're so intelligent and in such favor of intelligent debate, surely you wouldn't be stumped by that.

Umm, if you put a comma between "rednecks" and "republicans" it means you can call them either rednecks or republicans, whichever you like...

-- call us 'rednecks', 'republicans' or don't even mention us at all

[CrAz3D]

It is fine without the comma, correct?

[hismajesty]

Re:

I know this is going to cause trouble but it would be nice if you called us "rednecks" "republicans" or not even mention us at all.

notice the two sets of quotes? He forgot a comma, but since you're so intelligent and in such favor of intelligent debate, surely you wouldn't be stumped by that.

Umm, if you put a comma between "rednecks" and "republicans" it means you can call them either rednecks or republicans, whichever you like...

-- call us 'rednecks', 'republicans' or don't even mention us at all

Ah, yes. I see now, it was obviously just fully Deceptions error and not at all Newby's.

[Topaz]

Cloning people would lead scientists to make people that are far stronger, faster, more intelligent, and more resistant than others of the human race. That will lead to jealousy, and perhaps war. Humans are, by nature, flawed, and it is not our right to change that.

[DarkMinion]

I find it funny how most liberals would rather hiss & screech about how Bush is ruining the world than actually look at a particular problem from the inside out and attempt to do something to correct said problem.

People like Howard Dean are the perfect example of this.

The Democratic Party has become so hideously leftist that it has almost completely alienated the American voter.  It will be interesting to see what the Democrats do to repair the damage that has been done to their relationship with the American voter over the past several years.

[Adron]

Cloning is wrong because then people aren't unique & then people have no value & then life becomes pointless.

Life is already pointless, but apart from that, would you say twins have no value?