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[OnlyMeat]

The reason is simply because the "newbs" gravitate to VB & CSB. If they were only used by people who were knowledgable of their limitations and where they were properly usable, nobody would have as much of a problem.

When people post incredibly badly written code in C++ or C#, they get harassed for it just as much. It simply doesn't happen as often, since very few "newbs" bother to try writing anything in those more advanced languages.

/signed

My advice: Start over. If anything, your code will be better than the first time you wrote it. Unless your brain was owned by a worm as well.

/signed

Hehe, yes FaDeS, I appreciated your leet-speak, particularly the "eleven" inside.  It made a grumpy guy smile. 

Personally, the reason I dislike VB in general is, I suppose, the development environments available for it are shoddy.  VB6's IDE isn't particularly nice, and, while the IDE features of VS7 are nice, VB still seems cluttered.  I can't put my finger on it; perhaps it's everything being capitalized, like the obnoxious person Who Types Each Word In A Sentence With A Capital Letter, Who You Want To Just Shoot On Messenger Because It Pisses You Off.

That gives me a new thesis idea -- I could bring computer science and psychology together!  Does seeing constant capitalization on keywords cause more fatigue than an all-lowercase language?

Additionally, I think VB is verbose.  For example, there is a VB7 keyword "Overloads."  C# and C++ allow overloading automatically.  Consider the following class definition:

Code Select Expand


// C#
public class Something
{
  public virtual void A();
  public virtual void A(string blah);
}

// C++
class CSomething
{
  public:
    virtual void A();
    virtual void A(char *blah);
}

' VB
Public Class Something
  Public Overridable Overloads Sub A()
  Public Overridable Overloads Sub A(ByVal blah As String)
End Class
}

I mean, I just want to pull out my hair at that last VB class definition.  C++ is easily the shortest one, but C#'s isn't particularly longer -- maybe 4 or 5 keystrokes -- but it just hurts to look at.  *shrug*

[edit] Since you mentioned my grammar, I just got my final paper back for another class.  There are a few typographical errors, and the end of a paragraph where I meant to continue on about something, most likely due to the fact that I was up until 4:00 am typing it.  I got an A- on the paper, which proves one thing: grammar is so ingrained in my head that, even half-unconscious, I do it correctly.  The paper is here: Rational or Irrational: Kim Jong-Il and North Korea (first draft, the one I got an A- on )

I find someone who codes in c# calling another language verbose hilarious. The statements you choose to select for comparison to c++/c# are almost exactly the same.

Overridable is a longer word than virtual WOW! OMG! Emo alert!.

You failed to note vb doesn't require semi colons and opening/closing braces for blocks, VB is truly a RAD language.

With .net it's even less verbose and more functional as you have additional operators i.e +=, true polymorphism/inheritance,multithreading,structured exception handling exactly like c++.

c# was created to satisfy the programmer who cant code in c++ and thinks they are above VB.

vb.net and c# compile to the same MSIL and run at exactly the same speed while c# is more verbose than c++.

If you want high performance/elegance write c++. If you want RAD development go with vb.net it's that simple, c# is left in between for novalty purposes just like java really, but atleast java has cross platform support.

Im afraid c# is the most self indulgent language i have ever encountered.

[MyndFyre]

I find someone who codes in c# calling another language verbose hilarious. The statements you choose to select for comparison to c++/c# are almost exactly the same.

The purpose wasn't to compare C++ and C#, but to compare the two of them to VB.

Overridable is a longer word than virtual WOW! OMG! Emo alert!.

Um, I don't know what "emo" is, but you ignored my point about "Overloads."  It's implied, but you'll generate a warning in VB.NET if you don't supply it.

You failed to note vb doesn't require semi colons and opening/closing braces for blocks, VB is truly a RAD language.

You're right, it doesn't require opening-closing braces for blocks.  It requires "End If," "End Class," "End Struct," "End Interface," "Next," "Loop," etc.  Each of these is longer than the combined "{" and "}" delimiting blocks.  VB.NET doesn't support multiple statements on a single line without a token separator (I believe ":").  VB.NET doesn't support pointers, which allow C# to approach the speed of C++ in critical code sections.  VB.NET doesn't support inline comments.  VB.NET doesn't support XML class documentation without a plugin, i.e., it's not built into the compiler; if you're developing a library using RAD principles, you'd better be prepared to document it yourself if you're using VB.NET.  VB.NET doesn't support unsigned numbers.  VB.NET doesn't support escape sequences in strings (although it does allow newlines in string literals, but C# does as well if you prefix the string with the @ symbol).  VB.NET requires that attributes have a _ after to indicate that the attribute applies to the tokens on the next line, if you have a newline between them.  And you didn't address the annoying Capitalize Every Keyword Or The Ide Will Do It For You.

On this topic, have you ever read Code Complete?  It provides a very effective empirical analysis for the effects of language on a rapid application development project, but points out that there are a lot of other factors that can provide a much more significant efficiency increase.

With .net it's even less verbose and more functional as you have additional operators i.e +=, true polymorphism/inheritance,multithreading,structured exception handling exactly like c++.

VB .NET does not allow overloading operators until 2005.

vb.net and c# compile to the same MSIL and run at exactly the same speed while c# is more verbose than c++.

Well, they don't compile to EXACTLY the same MSIL, but close.  And VB is more verbose than C#, which means that VB is more verbose than C++, which makes whatever point you were trying to make irrelevant....

If you want high performance/elegance write c++. If you want RAD development go with vb.net it's that simple, c# is left in between for novalty purposes just like java really, but atleast java has cross platform support.

I don't know why you say Java is there for "novelty purposes."  Java is an extremely effective language, and it certainly has its applications.  I think C# was developed to be a direct competitor to Java, which was undoubtedly gaining ground on VB; C# has a similar syntax derived from Java, C#, and Ada, and provides the benefits of the Common Language Infrastructure to that syntax, including type-safe function pointers (delegates), types that are passed by value (structures), type-safe enumerations, and attributed programming.  Java lacks all of these features, which are present in each .NET Framework language, but C# really synthesizes a nice combination of Java's elegance with these features.

Im afraid c# is the most self indulgent language i have ever encountered.

On what grounds?

[OnlyMeat]

The purpose wasn't to compare C++ and C#, but to compare the two of them to VB.

I'll repeat what i said because you clearly didn't understand the sentence.

The statements you choose to select for comparison to
c++/c# are almost exactly the same.

Um, I don't know what "emo" is, but you ignored my point about "Overloads."  It's implied, but you'll generate a warning in VB.NET if you don't supply it.

Emo means someone who over-reacts.
My point was you are basically saying because Overridable is longer than virtual then vb is verbose, im afraid that is just a false assertion.

You're right, it doesn't require opening-closing braces for blocks.  It requires "End If," "End Class," "End Struct," "End Interface," "Next," "Loop," etc.  Each of these is longer than the combined "{" and "}" delimiting blocks.  VB.NET doesn't support multiple statements on a single line without a token separator (I believe ":").  VB.NET doesn't support pointers, which allow C# to approach the speed of C++ in critical code sections.  VB.NET doesn't support inline comments.  VB.NET doesn't support XML class documentation without a plugin, i.e., it's not built into the compiler; if you're developing a library using RAD principles, you'd better be prepared to document it yourself if you're using VB.NET.  VB.NET doesn't support unsigned numbers.  VB.NET doesn't support escape sequences in strings (although it does allow newlines in string literals, but C# does as well if you prefix the string with the @ symbol).  VB.NET requires that attributes have a _ after to indicate that the attribute applies to the tokens on the next line, if you have a newline between them.  And you didn't address the annoying Capitalize Every Keyword Or The Ide Will Do It For You.

On this topic, have you ever read Code Complete?  It provides a very effective empirical analysis for the effects of language on a rapid application development project, but points out that there are a lot of other factors that can provide a much more significant efficiency increase.

You can argue to you are blue in the face the point is you can write apps faster and easier with vb.net than c# at exactly the same performance, if you want detailed examples of this try searching google:-

http://www.vbrad.com/pf.asp?p=source/src_top_10_vb.htm

A good example in there is vb's with statement which sets the context of an object so you can access it's properties and methods without having to type in the name of the object over and over.

VB .NET does not allow overloading operators until 2005.

Exactly what does that have to do with how verbose vb.net is?

Well, they don't compile to EXACTLY the same MSIL, but close.  And VB is more verbose than C#, which means that VB is more verbose than C++, which makes whatever point you were trying to make irrelevant....

I think it's safe to say vb is much simpler than c++ in terms 
of how many lines you have to write which any vb programmer here can verify. Another false assertion anymore?

I don't know why you say Java is there for "novelty purposes."  Java is an extremely effective language, and it certainly has its applications.  I think C# was developed to be a direct competitor to Java, which was undoubtedly gaining ground on VB; C# has a similar syntax derived from Java, C#, and Ada, and provides the benefits of the Common Language Infrastructure to that syntax, including type-safe function pointers (delegates), types that are passed by value (structures), type-safe enumerations, and attributed programming.  Java lacks all of these features, which are present in each .NET Framework language, but C# really syntesizes a nice combination of Java's elegance with these features.

The problem with c# is it has no commercial value, it's not suitable for performance critical or for fast turn around applications. These qualities are found in c/c++ and vb respectively.

Java was based on c/c++ so actually it synthesizes it's so called elegance (Using an interpreted language is elegant??) from those.

On what grounds?

See above.

I can't put my finger on it; perhaps it's everything being capitalized, like the obnoxious person Who Types Each Word In A Sentence With A Capital Letter, Who You Want To Just Shoot On Messenger Because It Pisses You Off.

How long have you used visual studio?? lol - i guess not long as that feature is actually optional, it can auto capitalize keywords or leave them as typed.