Inauguration Day!

[hismajesty]

I would hardly say that winning the vote 51/48% is hardly 'America speaking as a whole' to support Arta's claim. I respect that Bush earned a 2nd term, but it seems to me Trust that you think liberalism is the past, and America will always be conservative. I seriously doubt this, but that's just what I got from your statement(s).

America is conservative now, Congress, the White House, the Governorships, etc.

Here in America, we're seeing red:

[Mephisto]

I see a lot of blue, and I also see a lot of red in unpopulated states; overall I say it's pretty even.  Also, showing a map like that is absolutely inaccurate considering there's is a large amount of the opposite party regardless of the color of the region.  For instance, it's red in California from where I am from, but according to the election results Bush got only ~60% and Kerry ~40%.  Goes to show you.

Also, the margins aren't incredibly huge in the differences from Democrats and Republicans in the Senate, House of Represenatives, and Governers.  Though there is a clear split and majority for the republicans, it's not like it won't be taken back in the future (and again in the future, and again).

[hismajesty]

It doesn't matter by how much, a majority is a majority and with majority comes power since the parties tend to stick together.

[Mephisto]

Yes, and the majority in a relatively unpopulated place compared to other places means little in the electorial college and popular vote.  Bush only one by a couple million out of over 100 million people.  I don't think that's a wide enough majority to say that 'America is now conservative' -- currently we may have conservative represenation and leaders (though we have a relatively close [but still distant] amount of democratic representation in congress), but that doesn't mean 'America is conservative.'  You can't speak for everyone, and the majority isn't wide enough to say that either, and even if it was it's still wrong to say 'America is conservative.'  (IMHO)

[Hazard]

America on the whole is more or less a conservatively dominated nation. The Blue states are falling apart and the Democratic party is ailing.

[quasi-modo]

Its not about who controls the big cities. It is about who controls that nation. If we did not have electoral college california and new york would get a lot more pork then they do now and be suffocating the rest of the nation.

[hismajesty]

Yes, and the majority in a relatively unpopulated place compared to other places means little in the electorial college and popular vote. Bush only one by a couple million out of over 100 million people. I don't think that's a wide enough majority to say that 'America is now conservative' -- currently we may have conservative represenation and leaders (though we have a relatively close [but still distant] amount of democratic representation in congress), but that doesn't mean 'America is conservative.' You can't speak for everyone, and the majority isn't wide enough to say that either, and even if it was it's still wrong to say 'America is conservative.' (IMHO)

When I say America, I don't mean the people, I mean the government. But, in any case, American voters are over the liberal agenda, and they're obviously over the Democratic party degrading American moral values, our Purtian influenced culture, and our ties to Christianity. Those that didn't vote really have no place to argue as they did nothing to help change the nation.

[Mephisto]

So you believe that American people and the American agenda should be based on traditions and moral beliefs set over 200 years ago?  That the seperation of church and state need not apply since we are linked to Christianity with our founding fathers, etc.?  That people should be considered non-American because they choose to be gay or something of the sort?  I don't agree with the republican views because I think America should be more open and accepting.  Because we have so many different cultures and ethnicities in America, it would be stupid IMO to be focused on conservative views and that we should use things from Christianity and apply them to various situations (such as court and law and school).

[quasi-modo]

So you believe that American people and the American agenda should be based on traditions and moral beliefs set over 200 years ago?  That the seperation of church and state need not apply since we are linked to Christianity with our founding fathers, etc.?  That people should be considered non-American because they choose to be gay or something of the sort?  I don't agree with the republican views because I think America should be more open and accepting.  Because we have so many different cultures and ethnicities in America, it would be stupid IMO to be focused on conservative views and that we should use things from Christianity and apply them to various situations (such as court and law and school).

Oh jeese   

[hismajesty]

So you believe that American people and the American agenda should be based on traditions and moral beliefs set over 200 years ago? That the seperation of church and state need not apply since we are linked to Christianity with our founding fathers, etc.? That people should be considered non-American because they choose to be gay or something of the sort? I don't agree with the republican views because I think America should be more open and accepting. Because we have so many different cultures and ethnicities in America, it would be stupid IMO to be focused on conservative views and that we should use things from Christianity and apply them to various situations (such as court and law and school).

Way to put words in my mouth.

[Hazard]

-Are you asking if we should hold and keep American traditions, the answer is "fuck yea." American tradition is critical.

That the seperation of church and state need not apply since we are linked to Christianity with our founding fathers, etc.?

-Nobody is saying that. What we're saying is that belief in God is a critical part of American tradition. It shouldn't be the basis of foreign policy, and it isn't. But do you expect a man who is religious and a leader of the country when deciding the fate of thousands to not turn to guidance from his higher authority? Thats just foolish.

That people should be considered non-American because they choose to be gay or something of the sort?

-Nobody has ever said that being gay is anti-American. The question is whether or not it is the law in this country that gays and lesbians can marry. This goes back to American tradition and values.

I don't agree with the republican views because I think America should be more open and accepting.

-The hippie view quite honestly. "Hey maaaan you should accept what we do maaaan its none of your business maaaan we should be free maaaan." At some point to preserve an America you can't go with the "no holds barred" approach.

Because we have so many different cultures and ethnicities in America, it would be stupid IMO to be focused on conservative views and that we should use things from Christianity and apply them to various situations (such as court and law and school).

-It goes back to American tradition. You're basically arguing that American tradition is bullshit and that we should forget it and move on into some neo-liberal stage where we can all sing songs hold hands and be merry. Welcome to real life.

[CrAz3D]

If we didn't base things like school & law on traditions then there would be no guidelines.  Our traditional guidelines are formed from our moral beliefs which are formed by our belief in an Almighty.  SO, if we disregard our beliefs & morals & tradition there becomes no basis or even a POINT for laws.  The whole "all men are created equal" is based upon our morals, so should we reinstate slavery?  I hope not.

[Arta]

A great number of you seem to think that 'traditions', 'values' and 'morals' are static, never-changing things. That would be an erroneous assumption.

[hismajesty]

Who assumes that? Obviously our morals change - we're allowing Blacks to count as 1 whole person now, allowing Women/blacks/etc. to vote, and tons of other things that we didn't used to allow.

[CrAz3D]

I never said we use the SAME traditions & values, I said we base schooling & law on our traditions.