Valhalla Legends Archive

My xgf just got caught with 3 grams, She is the dumbest person I've ever met.

I admit I've smoked weed many many times but I'm not dumb enough to do it in public places where people can see me or where I can get caught.

It's strange how you can usually tell who smokes weed without them saying it, even online.  

Quote from: iago on December 08, 2003, 04:40 PM
Did you know that if you make it legal to steal cars, less people will steal money, less people will be mugged, less people will have their houses broken into, and additionally, the stolen cars will no longer make up part of the statistic.

So crime goes down overall, not just for cartheft but for other stuff too, but not for the right reason.  I would submit that you can't use the fact that it reduces crime in other areas for your argument since this can happen for other reasons.

Stealing a car is an offense against another person's rights to their property.  Complete apples and oranges.  But nice try.

How do you complete apples and oranges?

Quote from: iago on December 08, 2003, 05:50 PM
It's strange how you can usually tell who smokes weed without them saying it, even online.  

Ouch that feels like a burn  

Quote from: St0rm.iD on December 08, 2003, 07:11 PM
How do you complete apples and oranges?

I like apples a lot, but they have a stupid core.  I like oranges, too, but they have a dumb peel.  If they would crossbreed a super fruit with the skin of an apple and the core of an orange, they would not only save me a lot of trouble but would also ruin that saying.  

And Grok - It's still reducing crime by legallizing another crime.  

How about if they make grafitti legal?  It would raise spraypaint sales which would help the economy?  ok fine, that means nothing.

Quote from: iago on December 08, 2003, 08:51 PM

Quote from: St0rm.iD on December 08, 2003, 07:11 PM
How do you complete apples and oranges?

I like apples a lot, but they have a stupid core.  I like oranges, too, but they have a dumb peel.  If they would crossbreed a super fruit with the skin of an apple and the core of an orange, they would not only save me a lot of trouble but would also ruin that saying.  

And Grok - It's still reducing crime by legallizing another crime.  

How about if they make grafitti legal?  It would raise spraypaint sales which would help the economy?  ok fine, that means nothing.

Graffiti isn't illegal.  Defacing someone else's property is.  Once again you're using crimes against others as a reason why a bad law shouldn't be removed.  Even so, you can search and search until you find an example that fits, but in the end you and I both know that you shouldn't give a damn if some 55 yo woman sits on her porch smoking a joint.

Quote from: St0rm.iD on December 08, 2003, 07:11 PM
How do you complete apples and oranges?

{Those are] Complete apples and oranges [comparisons].

Ok, since this has turned into such a heated topic... I will share my opinion. I think all drugs should be legal, they should double/triple a penalty for a different crime thats commited while under the influence of any drug and further stop wasting god damn tax money on social security and drug rehabilitation programs. Keep it illegal to smoke in public and let all the people who are stupid enough to do it, kill themselves off.

Ok, if they are going to legalize marijuana, what's stopping them legalizing every drug?  I'm sure it would be a bad idea to make heroin legal, just because of the nature of the drug.

But by this, what makes having sex with a minor illegal?  If they both agree (and don't tell me that a 14-year-old can't make conscious decisions), then nobody is being harmed, right?

Quote from: iago on December 09, 2003, 01:21 AM
Ok, if they are going to legalize marijuana, what's stopping them legalizing every drug?  I'm sure it would be a bad idea to make heroin legal, just because of the nature of the drug.

But by this, what makes having sex with a minor illegal?  If they both agree (and don't tell me that a 14-year-old can't make conscious decisions), then nobody is being harmed, right?

You're attempting to apply slippery-slope logic as your only argument defense, without addressing the points you are arguing against.  If I were to use the same tactic, I would respond like this:

OK, but if we don't decriminalize marijuana, next they'll be making tea and coffee illegal, and pretty soon we'll all have only water to drink!  And since too much oxygen can also get you high, they'll make the air illegal.  Where will it stop?

See, it's just as ineffective when used in reverse.

I like water just fine.  And I don't think you can argue against juice that way, so I'll be happy.

It seems to me that if we start progressing in either direction, then, we may fall down the slope, and right now we're sitting on the peak.  It seems safe enough here, though, so why ruin it?


I guess, to avoid any kind of straw-man problem, the issue here is freedom.  Are people really responsible enough to take care of themselves, or does the government have to look out for their well-being?

It seems to me that insurance is a very similar problem.  To drive a car, we have to give some organization a certain amount of money every month.  If anything happens, they will use that money to help us.  Why don't people just put the same amount of money into a private bank account, and not worry about the hassel?  Simply, because the vast majority of people don't have the responsibility necessary to do that, so the government must intervene with laws.  

On one hand, to drive, we have to pay the insurance company, and we lose freedom.  On the other hand, we're doing it for our own protection.


Am I getting at the right issue now?  I seem to have developed a severe case of insomnia, so I'm not sure how clearly I'm really thinking

Now that I got to thinking, I don't think my argument is slippery slope at all.  You said that it shouldn't be illegal because it doesn't harm anybody else, didn't you?  The same could be said for any drug, so it isn't a slippery slope, it directly follows (as opposed to eventually follows)

Hehe, iago.  You are a dire victim of misinformation.  You are not required to give your money to another company for insurance.  In most states where insurance is required, you can be self-insured by having said reserves.  This is one way rich people get richer, by self-insuring and keeping their own funds.  Poor people cannot afford to self-insure, and thus stay poor.

One of the principles of freedom is we promote the belief that individuals are the better choice to make decisions about their personal issues, when compared to a government official who should be concentrating on promoting trade, infrastructure, defense, and general welfare.  We believe that 55 year old woman should have the freedom to decide whether she should eat a 3rd burrito, even if it's going to give her heartburn, or whether to smoke a joint on her porch, even if it means she doesn't go to work the next day and gets herself fired.

That's entirely different from saying we should revoke laws which penalize people from hurting each other.  And remember, laws penalize, they don't prevent except through fear of penalty.  Some things we have to demonize to get people to accept laws against them, and to follow them.  Illicit drugs are a good example.  And yes, I do favor repeal of laws which criminalize possession or use of all illicit drugs.

Quote from: Arta[vL] on December 06, 2003, 10:58 PM
They should legalise these comparatively harmless drugs and make money by taxing them,

The government wont leagalise it because they cant tax something you can grow. Theyll only legalise something if they can make money from it.