Valhalla Legends Archive

Quote from: peofeoknight on September 04, 2004, 01:41 AM
If those people in the southern parts of my state can't vote correctly then they really do not need to be voting IMO. The ballot is not hard to understand! I think we should actually have competence tests at the poles, but I know that will never happen.

Anyone should be able to vote regardless of their intelligence if that priviledge has been bestowed upon them.  Likewise, the ballot should be geared in such a way that it is easy to understand for even the least intelligent person.  In any case, how do you know the ballot is not hard to understand?  Looking at your profile, you haven't even voted yet.

Quote from: peofeoknight on September 04, 2004, 10:40 AM
But I have never heard anything about the electoral college being made because people are illiterate in any of my government or history classes, it has always been to keep the populated parts of the country from governing the rest of it, and we still cannot remove it.

The founding fathers wanted to give the power of electing a president to the states not the people.  Other's believe this power should be delegated to the people.  So they compromised and created the electoral college on the basis of many things that are not true today (e.g. political parties, the media, etc).  And yes many of the founding fathers believed the majority of people were not intelligent enough to elect a president based on merit (this is called mob rule).

Read this:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa102200a.htm

[edit: grammar]

QuoteIn any case, how do you know the ballot is not hard to understand?

Pictures of the ballot are online.

I'm glad you don't think felons should vote. Why don't you state why you don't think so. It's kind of screwed up that someone who is 23 made a mistake when they were 18 so they can't choose who makes major decisions in their life.

Quote from: Sargera on September 04, 2004, 12:45 AM

Quote from: hismajesty[yL] on September 03, 2004, 11:56 PM

Quote from: muert0 on September 03, 2004, 11:52 PM
I hate the electoral college.

Why?

It's the reason why Bush was put into office over Algore.  Arguably, too, it takes away the purpose of citizens voting.

Dumbest thing I hav ever heard. The electoral college is a system that gurantees rights for everyone, not just the majority. The majority of voters in this country are Democrat and if it were a strict popular vote, the Democrat would have a sizeable advantage over anyone who wished to challange them.

Quote from: Hazard on September 04, 2004, 10:29 PM

Quote from: Sargera on September 04, 2004, 12:45 AM

Quote from: hismajesty[yL] on September 03, 2004, 11:56 PM

Quote from: muert0 on September 03, 2004, 11:52 PM
I hate the electoral college.

Why?

It's the reason why Bush was put into office over Algore.  Arguably, too, it takes away the purpose of citizens voting.

Dumbest thing I hav ever heard. The electoral college is a system that gurantees rights for everyone, not just the majority. The majority of voters in this country are Democrat and if it were a strict popular vote, the Democrat would have a sizeable advantage over anyone who wished to challange them.

So the majority shouldn't have the power?

Read the Constitution of the United States. The will of the majority shall not infringe on the rights of the minority.

Quote from: Hazard on September 04, 2004, 11:13 PM
Read the Constitution of the United States. The will of the majority shall not infringe on the rights of the minority.

Where does it say that in the Constitution?

Quote from: dxoigmn on September 04, 2004, 06:07 PM

Quote from: peofeoknight on September 04, 2004, 01:41 AM
If those people in the southern parts of my state can't vote correctly then they really do not need to be voting IMO. The ballot is not hard to understand! I think we should actually have competence tests at the poles, but I know that will never happen.

Anyone should be able to vote regardless of their intelligence if that priviledge has been bestowed upon them.  Likewise, the ballot should be geared in such a way that it is easy to understand for even the least intelligent person.  In any case, how do you know the ballot is not hard to understand?  Looking at your profile, you haven't even voted yet.

I have used the butterfly ballot before in class though. Its not hard to understand. Its not like you can't ask someone how to make a selection, I mean they have officials there. If you are that incompetent do you need to be selecting the leader of the country (or to be technical the ones who are selecting the leader)
edit: misspoke a bit.

Quote from: peofeoknight on September 05, 2004, 01:42 AM
I have used the australian ballot before though. Its not hard to understand. Its not like you can't ask someone how to make a selection, I mean they have officials there. If you are that incompetent do you need to be selecting the leader of the country (or to be technical the ones who are selecting the leader)

Ahh, it can be quite intimidating to ask someone how to vote.  In fact, many African Americans say they are intimidated at the polls.  So if you're having problems using the voting machine and you feel intimidated, do you really believe these people are going to seek help?

Quote from: dxoigmn on September 05, 2004, 01:53 AM

Quote from: peofeoknight on September 05, 2004, 01:42 AM
I have used the australian ballot before though. Its not hard to understand. Its not like you can't ask someone how to make a selection, I mean they have officials there. If you are that incompetent do you need to be selecting the leader of the country (or to be technical the ones who are selecting the leader)

Ahh, it can be quite intimidating to ask someone how to vote.  In fact, many African Americans say they are intimidated at the polls.  So if you're having problems using the voting machine and you feel intimidated, do you really believe these people are going to seek help?

Thats one of the many reasons the officials at the polls are there. If I were having a problem I would ask. I am white, if that makes any difference.

PS: A quote comes to mind. "Your rights end at the tip of my nose". I heard that a while back, fogot who said it. But it is basically the rights of one cannot infringe on the rights of another. I do not know where it is in the constitution but I will dig around for it. Its not in the bill of rights and I did not see it in any of the other ammendments at first glance.

Quote from: muert0 on September 04, 2004, 03:09 PM

Quote from: peofeoknight on September 04, 2004, 10:50 AM

Quote from: hismajesty[yL] on September 04, 2004, 10:48 AM
They're saying that they kept blacks from voting because they were convicted felons (and aren't able to vote.) I don't know if they were felons or not, but that's what I've been hearing from liberal sources.

How many blacks were really effected? I know there is the stereotype that all blacks will steal your vcr, but I am sure the % of blacks that are convicted felons is rather small. I bet it is comperable to the % of whites that are convicted felons.

Yeah rather small my ass. You ever been to jail? It sucks being a cracker in prison. Here are some numbers and it pretty nuch explains why there are so many blacks in jail.  
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/racepris.htm
And here's an article I thought was pretty good. It's about convicted felons not having a right to vote.
http://speakout.com/activism/issue_briefs/1289b-1.html
It sucks not having any rights as a citizen but being expected to pay taxes and the like.

I mean as a % of the total black population, it would have to be rather small wouldn't it? I have not looked at or looked for any figures, I am just assumeing. Is it larger then I think? How does it compare to the white population that has been convicted of a felony?

http://mondediplo.com/1998/07/14prison
http://www.charleston.net/stories/060103/wor_01jailbirds.shtml
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/

QuoteEven more troubling than the absolute number of persons in jail or prison is the extent to which those men and women are African-American. Although blacks account for only 12 percent of the U.S. population, 44 percent of all prisoners in the United States are black (Figure 1).

Quote from: muert0 on September 04, 2004, 10:12 PM
I'm glad you don't think felons should vote. Why don't you state why you don't think so. It's kind of screwed up that someone who is 23 made a mistake when they were 18 so they can't choose who makes major decisions in their life.

So, you're saying, if somebody commits a felony we should just totally forgive them after 5 years? No. They commited a crime, they don't deserve to have their freedom.