Valhalla Legends Archive

Quote from: Adron on March 12, 2004, 06:25 PM

Quote from: Hazard on March 12, 2004, 05:29 PM

Quote from: Adron on March 12, 2004, 04:05 PM

Quote from: Hazard on March 12, 2004, 03:52 PM
My argument has nothing to do with being held at gun point. I'm saying that if somebody is encroaching on me in a dark alley I'd draw and if he made an attacking move I'd take him down. My argument is that if somebody forces their way into my home then they're as good as screwed. Your argument is I should just call the police and wait for them. Your argument is I should be easy prey.

Ah, such fun. So now you're in the alley, someone's sneaking in to take a leak in the shadows. You pull out your gun, he sees that, so he pulls out his gun. Pulling out a gun is obviously an attacking move, so you try to take him down, but you just wing him, and he shoots you too. Then you both bleed to death. GREAT WORK HAZARD!

What if he isn't coming in to take a leak? What if he is coming at you with a baseball bat? Or a crobar? Or a knife? What if there are 3 of them with knives? Should I just run? Call the cops?

Yes, how do you know if he's coming in to take a leak or not? You've just demonstrated that your way of thinking doesn't work, you'd murder an innocent man.

Its hard to assume that 3 men walking towards you with crobars baseball bats and knives are just out for a walk Adron.

Quote from: Adron on March 12, 2004, 06:25 PM

Quote from: Hazard on March 12, 2004, 05:29 PM

Quote from: Adron on March 12, 2004, 04:05 PM
Neither will a gun. Somebody hell bent on killing you will have his gun in his hand before you draw yours, and he will shoot and kill you before you have a chance.

If they're coming at me with a weapon they'll have two in their chest and one in their head before they knew what hit them. Even if they have their weapon out, I'm not going down without a fight.

This is so stupid. Do you actually think that you are rambo?

Think!


Assume that they are coming to kill you, what are your chances of taking them down - they've prepared themselves to kill you and you're unprepared.

Now, if you assumed that you'll win the first battle (which won't happen, but still), assume that they're not coming to kill you. What are the chances of you having murdered them because you reacted instinctively?

I'm going down fighting, its simple as that. If they are prepared to harm me, I'm not going down without a fight. I'd rather fight for my life than accept a grim fate. They are coming at me with weapons to ask directions Adron? Do you believe anything that comes out of your mind?

They're just defending themselves from your gun.  It's their human right.

Quote from: Grok on March 12, 2004, 10:09 PM
They're just defending themselves from your gun.  It's their human right.

No, if they were defending themselves they would be walking away from you.

Some statistics:
If you have a gun at home, it is 22 times more probably that you or some in your family will die in a firing.

When it get to a firing at home, in 2% you shoot the burglar. In 98% you shoot yourself or someone in your family or the burglar takes your gun and shoots you.

Sense moral: Self defends with a gun is a myth.

And more: There are 500 000 000 guns in American homes. Every year 500 000 of these weapons are stolen and sold to young people in the suburbs. People get scared, believe human right to defend them selves is equal to have a gun, and buy more weapons.
It is a violent spiral. You are building a society, where people are afraid of each other.

Quote from: j0k3r on March 12, 2004, 10:32 PM

Quote from: Grok on March 12, 2004, 10:09 PM
They're just defending themselves from your gun.  It's their human right.

No, if they were defending themselves they would be walking away from you.

Wrong.  Knives are best used up close.  Guns have much larger range.  If they walked away, they have no chance to defend themselves.  You wouldn't have that gun out unless you intended to use it, so they have every right to attack you with their knives, defensively.

Quote from: Grok on March 13, 2004, 04:07 AM

Quote from: j0k3r on March 12, 2004, 10:32 PM

Quote from: Grok on March 12, 2004, 10:09 PM
They're just defending themselves from your gun.  It's their human right.

No, if they were defending themselves they would be walking away from you.

Wrong.  Knives are best used up close.  Guns have much larger range.  If they walked away, they have no chance to defend themselves.  You wouldn't have that gun out unless you intended to use it, so they have every right to attack you with their knives, defensively.

I have never said I would shoot somebody with a knife, basball  bat, crobar, etc. if they were running away from me. If they attack me I have the right to assume they intend to kill me.

Do any of you actually understand what the law says about when you can use a firearm? Because you all seem to be completely ignorant to it.

...and you seem to be ignorant to the fact that the circumstances under which you successfully use a gun to defend yourself are highly unlikely to arise. The circumstances under which you shoot yourself, someone else shoots you, you shoot someone you didn't mean to, or someone else shoots themselves are staggeringly more likely to arise.

What more needs to be said?

Quote from: Grok on March 13, 2004, 04:07 AM

Quote from: j0k3r on March 12, 2004, 10:32 PM

Quote from: Grok on March 12, 2004, 10:09 PM
They're just defending themselves from your gun.  It's their human right.

No, if they were defending themselves they would be walking away from you.

Wrong.  Knives are best used up close.  Guns have much larger range.  If they walked away, they have no chance to defend themselves.  You wouldn't have that gun out unless you intended to use it, so they have every right to attack you with their knives, defensively.

So you're telling me that if you're in an alley, and someone feels threatened by you, they will walk TOWARDS you with a knife in self defence? I'm saying that if someone is walking towards you, they have some sort of intension that involves you. If they are wielding a weapon, you know that it is to hurt you. Now if they are just walking towards you and you pull out a gun, they will not pull out a knife and run at you in self defence, they will turn around and run their asses away.

I don't see what you'd be doing in an alley anyways.

Quote from: Arta[vL] on March 13, 2004, 09:26 AM
...and you seem to be ignorant to the fact that the circumstances under which you successfully use a gun to defend yourself are highly unlikely to arise. The circumstances under which you shoot yourself, someone else shoots you, you shoot someone you didn't mean to, or someone else shoots themselves are staggeringly more likely to arise.

So we shouldn't be prepared? The circumstances that your microwave will shortcircut and start a fire are unlikely, so we shouldn't buy a fire extinguisher to have in our home? I'm sure you have empirical evidence you can cite for me on the ideas you just put forward.

Quote from: Hazard on March 13, 2004, 08:23 AM

Quote from: Grok on March 13, 2004, 04:07 AM

Quote from: j0k3r on March 12, 2004, 10:32 PM

Quote from: Grok on March 12, 2004, 10:09 PM
They're just defending themselves from your gun.  It's their human right.

No, if they were defending themselves they would be walking away from you.

Wrong.  Knives are best used up close.  Guns have much larger range.  If they walked away, they have no chance to defend themselves.  You wouldn't have that gun out unless you intended to use it, so they have every right to attack you with their knives, defensively.

I have never said I would shoot somebody with a knife, basball  bat, crobar, etc. if they were running away from me. If they attack me I have the right to assume they intend to kill me.

Do any of you actually understand what the law says about when you can use a firearm? Because you all seem to be completely ignorant to it.

The "law" is the problem.  Did you know that it's illegal to own an owl, but you're allowed to own a firearm?  I've never seen anybody killed by an owl, have you?

-The Buzz

Anyone who shoots themself by accident either:
1) Has no training at all
or
2) Falls into the category of "complete moron who shouldn't own a gun in the first place".

Not necessarily.  You hear about drunk people or people high on drugs doing these things occasionally, for instance.

Hazard, I touch you on the shoulder to ask you for directions when your back is turned. You shoot me because you thought I was attacking you.

You obviously have no experience in being robbed. I live in a neighbourhood that's not really nice. A highschool student was dragged into a house, beaten, had a belt tied around his neck and was wiped around by it. This happened 3 blocks away from my house and it was done by a 16 year old and an 18 year old, they then called up 4 more friends to help them. After that they let him go, all they wanted was their drug money that they loaned to the person who got beat up.

If he had shot his attackers, people would not of respected him as much for killing two teenagers, if he pepper sprayed them, he would of gotten away, pepper spray hurts, really. What are you doing in a dark alley way anyway, if your trying to be safe, be smart about it, stay in well let area's and in public places or in a group.

You've never been confronted, based on your posts. I have, I've been mugged before and threatned to be beat up, I just stayed cool, didnt provoke them and if they had gotten physical, I don't know what I would of done, shooting them, aboslutely not, even if i had a gun, I maybe would just pull it out to scare them away. Pepper Spray is probably your best bet,

1. It hurts, there's lots of it, and it's easy to use.
2. When people try to rob you, they just want your wallet, not to kill you, once you give it to them, they run off without shooting anyone, it's safer.

Quote from: Hitmen on March 13, 2004, 12:51 PM
Anyone who shoots themself by accident either:
1) Has no training at all
or
2) Falls into the category of "complete moron who shouldn't own a gun in the first place".

And with the current gun laws, these people are allowed to wander around with a gun.  Are you saying that there isn't a problem with that?

And what if you're asleep and you think you hear somebody, then you see a shadow in your door (I'm assuming you live alone).  You pull the gun and shoot, not wanting to be unsafe, then you find out you killed your mother.  It can happen.

Quote from: Skywing on March 13, 2004, 12:54 PM
Not necessarily.  You hear about drunk people or people high on drugs doing these things occasionally, for instance.

They fall into the complete and utter moron category.